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Re: Any better Comparision? Suggestion???

Hi,

> [and I have been reading WW, ETI, Elektor, JAES etc. for far too
> long!].

Then you know what I mean.

> I seem to read D. Selfs writing in a different manner from
> the subjectivist culture of the AA.

While I may be a "subjectivist", I do have a degree in electronics and a good deal of practical experience. One of the earliest things I learned about audio while working for a small company making modular mixing desks was that classic measurements (beyound a basic level) mean diddly squat and that changing a Pot from one type (carbon film) to another (precisition wirewound) made about the most incredible change (dare I say improvement) in sound that I have come across outside cables.

Basically my experience, plus a lot of time spend asking "why does it sound different" and sometimes coming up with answers, in other cases not tell me that a lot of things D. Self rubbishes in a particulary nasty manner by pretending to have "scientifically investigated" the subject while he has really done all BUT scientifically investigated the subject (I can't even give credit in some cases on primay school "scientific" project level).

Basically, I feel his attitude stinks big time. I don't mind him saying "well some say this makes a difference but I can't measure one that I consider relevant and I can't hear any either" (actually, I doubt he can any difference at all on anything - you have to a hearing level to Beethoven in his latter years not to hear some of things Mr Self claims not to have heard).

What I do take major issue is that based on that he declares his view absolutely right and everyone who holds differing views as wrong and a charlatan (a trait he shares with Rod Elliott).

> I can see a valid case for not discussing the final "voicing"
> of anything in audio,

So can I. But I can see a valid case for discussing fundamental topologies, the quite dramatic differences in subjective sonics provided by a variety difference in active or passive parts (and indeed connectros, cables, Circuit Board materieals if PCB's are used).

> It is no more mysterious to me why DS does not discuss final
> sound quality

Nor is it to me. Not that he'd have much to talk about. Ever used one of his mixing desks? They sound about as good (or not) as his preamp....

> than it is why one is not allowed DBT comparisons in the asylum!

I believe the discussion of DBT in the Cable asylum was put off limits as it is not one that is productive. It tends to rehash again and again the same arguments and often in not the most friendly manner.

It may surprise you if I told you that both myself and I believe Mr. Risch are pretty regular users of Blind AB testing, though not neccesarily allways accuratly according to the specific ABX protocol (primarily because either of use is not interrested in the question if there is a perceptible difference, but if there is a consistent and distinct preference. I already know "that everything sounds different in different degrees", I want to know what sounds better.

> If we are to simply concentrate on his website,

If we are I'd ideally take up cyber terroism to bring it down. But a) I can't be bothered and B) I believe that freedom is allways that of one opposed to ones own views. Sadly Mr Self does not seem to be willing to extend a similar courtesy to people he disagrees with. For if he could he'd be only to happy to shut them up.... (again, reading WW iluminates this very well).

> I should have thought that it was set up to provide "analogue
> power users" or "undergrad engineers" with some useful tips to
> help sort this crazy field of analogue variables.

Hmmm. It seems to me primarily there to promote hi "objectivst views" as evidenced by much of the content.

> Shouldn't we be thanking D. Self for the useful data on balanced
> lines/distortion etc?

I note very little usefull data. His work on distortion was exhaustive on one specific (but arguably commonly used) type of circuit and made little or no mention of a variety of inherently superior designs. So I persoanlly rate it primarily under curiosity and "missed the subject", as I would consider the subject to make a high quality Amplifier.

> So what is the basic gripe?

His footballing attitude.

> That he doesn't recommend the latest op-amps in fashion?

Not neccesarily. Rather that he simply ignores the basic issues behind them.

> I should have thought that his writings were based on his
> personal experience at the time of writing.

In which case perhaps he should spend more time working acroiss fields adn in the breath of the subject, rather than applying excessive depth to a more or less not very deserving and rewarding narrow area. But that is his choice.

> He does have a section on discrete design which basically says
> that if you can't buy a good enough op amp then make a discrete
> or hybrid one. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Yes. To me too. But these Days I can buy Op-Amp's that are considerably better than anything I (or indeed he) can do discrete or "hybrid", but he remains happy to ignore them and join the Knights who say Ni and look a little befuddeled. He should perhaps take his own advise more often and realise that there is live beyound the NE5534 (and indeed the AD797) in the year 2002....

> I don't WORK in audio design so my data is from too small a
> perspective to be as authorative as DS, JC and others.

I MUST personally discound DS from that list very much, simply based on the designs that I have heard (mostly Pro-Audio stuff, but also "perfect" preamps and "blameless" poweramps -balmeless - sure I'd never blame it providing good sound).

Now JC - he knows what he is talking about (again based on listening to some of his Designs). I still ain't a great fan of most Solid State gear (and probably never will), but some of his own stuff sounds great (get hold of a Vendetta Phonostage).

Later T

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