SET Asylum Single Ended Triodes (SETs), the ultimate tube lovers dream.

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Re: Why does less output mirror better sound?

Posted by Thorsten on June 14, 2000 at 04:45:03

In Reply to: Re: Why does less output mirror better sound? posted by Joe II-K on June 13, 2000 at 13:28:01:

Hi there,

> I'm not sure if you realise this, but your opinion carries quite
> a lot of weight.

It shouldn't really. The main answer is "go listen for yourself"

> It bothers me that you dismiss a whole range of SETs out of hand,
> when you have not compared like with like in the same setup at the
> same time.

No, I have however worked EXTENSIVELY with all the valves under question and have a number of Examples of all comparably good to close the best possible PP and SE Amp's with these valves (845, 813, 211, 300B, 2A3). Morover, I have at least participated in the design of several Amp's using these valves.

This gives a range of experience that I believe allows me a reasonable judgement.

And I have had the Chance to hear the Ongaku and Baransu side by side driving Wilson Audio Watt3/Puppy2.... There was no comparison. On all but poer the Baransu was streets ahead.

> I can understand you might be enthused after listening to all those
> lovely low power triodes (I wish I could have been there myself),
> but if you didn't A/B with an 845 based amp in the same system at
> the same time

That we did not. But I had more than one chance to compare 845/211/813 based Amplifiers against 300B/2A3 based Amplifiers. And rest assured, most of these where at the very least VERY WELL designed and executed.

There is a clear specific Sound to the 845, also to the 813. The 211 sounds a lot different, but all these Valves loose out on detail, immedicay and toanl balance against lower powered DHT based Amplifiers. Who knows, perhaps if we build an 845 Amp to produce only 4 - 6 Watt it will sound better than one designed for full power? But why bother if we can a 300B Amp instead?

> and you're relying on a dealer demo,

I rely on many sources, not only a single one.

> You know better than I, that the output tube is only one component
> in a system. The circuit design, component quality, driver stage,
> OPT, Power supply, yadda, yadda, yadda; are all vitally important
> in shaping the sound of an SET amp.

Correct. Nevertheless, certain Valves have their inherent sound. This is certainly true for 2A3, 300B, 845, 211, 813, EL34, KT66, KT88, 6550 to name but a few. And this charateristic comes through, regardless of Amp design, PP vs SE, use of negative feedback or not.

> I'm sure it's possible to build a bad-sounding 845 based amp,

Yes. I'm less sure that it is possible to build one that can match the better 300B Amplifiers in timbral accuracy and immediacy, as well as detail and delciacy.

> Indeed, it uses 211s. I should have been more specific. Still, the
> few comparisons I have found between the 211 and 845 in the same amp
> favor the 845 as being harmonically richer and more dynamic.

I do agree on this. The 211 has a quite "steely" cound.

> There you go with your generalizations and silly biases again!

Again, I heard of them side by side. The dgradation of sound in the "integrated" Version was apalling.

Later T

PS, due to my work on Friends systems, I know at least four very different Systems quite intimatly.... I even often take the more portable items from me or them around for a trip into several or all of these systems....

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

Atma-Sphere Music Systems, Inc.

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