SET Asylum Single Ended Triodes (SETs), the ultimate tube lovers dream.

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Re: Why does less output mirror better sound?

Posted by Joe II-K on June 13, 2000 at 13:28:01

In Reply to: Re: Why does less output mirror better sound? posted by Thorsten on June 13, 2000 at 03:18:38:

I always enjoy reading your posts and I've learned a thing or two from them. I'm not sure if you realise this, but your opinion carries quite a lot of weight. It bothers me that you dismiss a whole range of SETs out of hand, when you have not compared like with like in the same setup at the same time.

I can understand you might be enthused after listening to all those lovely low power triodes (I wish I could have been there myself), but if you didn't A/B with an 845 based amp in the same system at the same time and you're relying on a dealer demo, or demo of someone else's system from quite a while ago, then I don't think it's fair to state that 845s sound bad in comparison. You can do immense damage with off-the-cuff statements like that.

You know better than I, that the output tube is only one component in a system. The circuit design, component quality, driver stage, OPT, Power supply, yadda, yadda, yadda; are all vitally important in shaping the sound of an SET amp. The application is as importnat as the compoents used, if not more so.

I'm sure it's possible to build a bad-sounding 845 based amp, just as I'm sure it's possible to build a bad-sounding 300B or 2A3 amp. The output tube by itself does not dictate whether the amp will sound good or otherwiuse and it's false to claim that just because an amp uses Tube X it can't sound good. Also the partnering speakers have a HUGE effect on how an SET amp will sound (as you well know). How can you reasonably compare SET amps driving different speakers? I would not be able to do that.

> The Ongaku does not use the 845.

Indeed, it uses 211s. I should have been more specific. Still, the few comparisons I have found between the 211 and 845 in the same amp favor the 845 as being harmonically richer and more dynamic. Does this make the 211 a worse tube and the Ongaku a worse amp then my Bel Canto? Of course not! It's all in the application.

I'm going to try some NOS 211s. If they don't sound as good to me, I can say that, in my amp, the 211s THAT I TRIED did not sound as good to me as the 845. But I'm not about to assume that the 211 is in general a worse sounding tube, period, or can never be made to sound good. Such generalizations would be both unwarranted and misleading without extensive listening tests in differnt circuits within the same system context.

> note - this is NOT the integrated version with that f&%$ing Op-Amp &
> Silicon Volume control).

There you go with your generalizations and silly biases again! How do you know if you haven't listened to it seriously in a known system over an extended period?

-Joe.

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