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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: Sorry, you're backtracking... posted by SF tech on September 19, 2007 at 14:01:39:
SFT,
Once again you're mistaken some with all. I NEVER said and please show me were I have, that all measurements and specs are useless. I even gave a couple of examples like speaker reactance and room interaction of important info to know!
Even one of your fellow Objectivists RBG says: "The only measurement that really matters is whether components A and B are playing music at the same SPL, or at least very close." Interesting no? The sad fact is that much of what's provided as measurements & specs with today's audio equipment is useless in deteremining sound quality, period! But that doesn't mean I believe ALL measurements & specs are useless. Boy talk about twisting the truth to fit your POV!
Thetubeguy1954
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents - thetubeguy1954 12:27:53 09/18/07 (199)
- I hired an investigator to find out the truth about Tube Guy and it is absolutely shocking!!!!!!!! - Richard BassNut Greene 12:47:44 09/22/07 (3)
- RE: I hired an investigator to find out the truth about Tube Guy and it is absolutely shocking!!!!!!!! - thetubeguy1954 13:49:02 09/25/07 (1)
- That leash looks like the cable they use to catch jets on aircraft carrier decks - Richard BassNut Greene 07:54:06 09/26/07 (0)
- Do You Have the Signed Contract?? - Todd Krieger 22:51:52 09/24/07 (0)
- RE: A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents - EBradMeyer 06:45:24 09/21/07 (36)
- A pharmacist's perspective - E-Stat 09:16:57 09/22/07 (11)
- RE: A pharmacist's perspective - EBradMeyer 11:46:26 09/25/07 (1)
- You're welcome - E-Stat 13:31:29 09/25/07 (0)
- Another pharmacist's perspective... - mkuller 11:10:14 09/22/07 (8)
- RE: Another pharmacist's perspective... - Steve Eddy 13:04:54 09/22/07 (7)
- Couple of issues occur to me. - Dave Pogue 06:19:50 09/23/07 (6)
- RE: Couple of issues occur to me. - EBradMeyer 12:01:28 09/25/07 (3)
- I hope your conclusions are sounder than your perception of who I am. - Dave Pogue 12:12:13 09/25/07 (2)
- RE: I hope your conclusions are sounder than your perception of who I am. - EBradMeyer 12:30:49 09/25/07 (1)
- Oh, it's sufficiently eminent. - Dave Pogue 12:55:10 09/25/07 (0)
- RE: Couple of issues occur to me. - Steve Eddy 09:37:41 09/23/07 (0)
- RE: Couple of issues occur to me. - Ted Smith 08:23:59 09/23/07 (0)
- RE: A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents - Todd Krieger 01:30:25 09/22/07 (14)
- Agree and disagree - AJinFLA 09:01:45 09/22/07 (0)
- Well-answered! If I may recast it a bit... - clarkjohnsen 08:56:05 09/22/07 (12)
- RE: "unqualified test subjects" - tlyyra 03:59:33 09/23/07 (2)
- Time to put a stop to the lies and the LIAR who tells them. - clarkjohnsen 12:09:14 09/23/07 (1)
- Would hearing OMG improvement in a grinded/inked cd qualify someone? Eliminate them as a moron? (nt) - AJinFLA 17:00:23 09/23/07 (0)
- Catch 22 - AJinFLA 09:13:11 09/22/07 (8)
- Question - E-Stat 09:23:06 09/22/07 (7)
- RE: Question - AJinFLA 09:34:48 09/23/07 (6)
- Congratulations! - E-Stat 09:44:49 09/23/07 (5)
- RE: Congratulations! - AJinFLA 12:21:06 09/23/07 (4)
- Rick what scientifically acceptable method should be used to demonstrate that audiophiles do indeed "hear it"? - AJinFLA 15:53:37 09/24/07 (1)
- Only too happy to repeat the answer - E-Stat 09:23:15 09/26/07 (0)
- Gotcha - E-Stat 06:15:19 09/24/07 (1)
- Rick? - AJinFLA 08:46:09 09/26/07 (0)
- RE: A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents - Pat D 12:29:59 09/21/07 (4)
- RE: That clears up a lot! - EBradMeyer 21:29:27 09/21/07 (3)
- RE: That clears up a lot! - Steve Eddy 13:10:07 09/22/07 (1)
- RE: That clears up a lot! - EBradMeyer 12:22:42 09/25/07 (0)
- RE: That clears up a lot! - Pat D 07:44:06 09/22/07 (0)
- RE: A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents - thetubeguy1954 07:27:30 09/21/07 (3)
- RE: That clears up a lot! - EBradMeyer 21:35:54 09/21/07 (0)
- RE: A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents - gymwear5@hotmail.com 10:49:33 09/21/07 (0)
- RE: A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents - Pat D 07:57:16 09/21/07 (0)
- I think making measurements or studying measurements made by others before an audition may be a mistake - Richard BassNut Greene 09:10:33 09/20/07 (9)
- You're confusing measurements with "specifications" - Presto 12:21:26 09/20/07 (8)
- I may be confused about things in general, but I'm not confusing measurements and specs - Richard BassNut Greene 14:16:57 09/21/07 (0)
- Name them... - rick_m 19:46:48 09/20/07 (4)
- Interesting stuff. Read this article on the FTC amp rules... - Presto 22:39:33 09/20/07 (3)
- Bummer... - rick_m 08:04:57 09/21/07 (2)
- RE: Bummer... - Dan Banquer 08:37:05 09/21/07 (0)
- It certainly is! (nt) - Pat D 08:29:58 09/21/07 (0)
- RE: You're confusing measurements with "specifications" - thetubeguy1954 13:10:37 09/20/07 (1)
- Ooops. That was for you, Tubeguy, not RBNG... but anyways... - Presto 15:34:40 09/20/07 (0)
- Does your "Objectivists" exist? - soulfood 16:50:30 09/19/07 (50)
- Not many objectivists nor many subjectivists exist - kerr 07:41:12 09/20/07 (20)
- Did you exaggerate to make your point? - soulfood 10:03:39 09/20/07 (6)
- Slightly, perhaps - kerr 10:27:00 09/20/07 (5)
- "Assuming you're more objectivist than subjectivist, would you like to start? " Oh boy! - soulfood 16:02:55 09/20/07 (4)
- RE: "Assuming you're more objectivist than subjectivist, would you like to start? " Oh boy! - kerr 17:28:01 09/20/07 (3)
- Never a non-response from the good people ("seekers of truth"). - soulfood 20:41:34 09/20/07 (2)
- On our POV? Yes, you're correct. Happy to see you noticed (nt) - kerr 04:11:39 09/21/07 (1)
- Yourself excluded, another manufactured entity. (nt) - soulfood 04:30:02 09/21/07 (0)
- 100% Correct Kerr - thetubeguy1954 08:13:02 09/20/07 (10)
- Sorry Kerr and TG54, but being between two extremes is not a criterion of truth. - Pat D 06:23:31 09/21/07 (9)
- But on the other hand ... - Richard BassNut Greene 12:44:56 09/22/07 (0)
- True enough - kerr 07:44:46 09/21/07 (2)
- (maybe) "we could get some sense knocked into us subjectivists?" - Richard BassNut Greene 14:22:26 09/21/07 (1)
- That wasn't funny! - kerr 17:05:30 09/21/07 (0)
- RE: Sorry Kerr and TG54, but being between two extremes is not a criterion of truth. - thetubeguy1954 07:30:14 09/21/07 (4)
- RE: Sorry Kerr and TG54, but being between two extremes is not a criterion of truth. - Pat D 08:32:20 09/21/07 (3)
- 90% Of What You Post (NT) - thetubeguy1954 09:02:30 09/21/07 (2)
- As I thought, no evidence at all. - Pat D 11:51:01 09/21/07 (1)
- Look In The Mirror! - thetubeguy1954 12:31:50 09/21/07 (0)
- Who died and made you the Ambassador of Peace and Goodwill among Audiophiles? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:09:33 09/20/07 (1)
- I have my own category??? - kerr 08:32:02 09/20/07 (0)
- RE: Does your "Objectivists" exist? - thetubeguy1954 05:45:06 09/20/07 (28)
- "They believe Subjectivists feel ALL measurements [etc.] are useless." Yes. And it's a FALSE belief! nt - clarkjohnsen 08:46:00 09/20/07 (0)
- "Personally I don't understand a good portion of what a lot of the Objectivists here believe ... " - Richard BassNut Greene 07:40:35 09/20/07 (26)
- Sorry Richard But You're Incorrect! - thetubeguy1954 08:24:57 09/20/07 (24)
- RE: Sorry Richard But You're Incorrect! - Steve Eddy 08:59:50 09/20/07 (22)
- Actually Steve - thetubeguy1954 05:54:49 09/21/07 (21)
- RE: Actually Steve - Steve Eddy 09:02:23 09/21/07 (20)
- I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - thetubeguy1954 09:13:43 09/21/07 (19)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - Steve Eddy 09:42:05 09/21/07 (18)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - thetubeguy1954 11:03:17 09/21/07 (17)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - Steve Eddy 12:02:45 09/21/07 (16)
- Oh, NO!!!!! - kerr 13:35:00 09/21/07 (3)
- RE: Oh, NO!!!!! - thetubeguy1954 15:10:32 09/23/07 (0)
- RE: Oh, NO!!!!! - AJinFLA 13:57:35 09/21/07 (1)
- RE: Oh, NO!!!!! - kerr 17:00:01 09/21/07 (0)
- a) Taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision...Bingo! (nt) - AJinFLA 13:08:30 09/21/07 (0)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - thetubeguy1954 12:36:34 09/21/07 (1)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - Steve Eddy 19:35:48 09/21/07 (0)
- Oh..no... I sense a YOU! WRONG! LIAR! forthcoming (nt) - AJinFLA 12:13:45 09/21/07 (8)
- Say it isn't so! (nt) - Pat D 12:34:33 09/21/07 (7)
- it isn't so! - thetubeguy1954 12:42:07 09/21/07 (6)
- Are you the guy that found the singing frog? (nt) - Pat D 12:49:09 09/21/07 (5)
- Nah The Frog Is A "Bi" Product Of You & Your Little Buddy FroLicking In The Playpen (nt) - thetubeguy1954 13:32:13 09/21/07 (0)
- VERY provocative Pat. You liked that one huh :-) (nt) - AJinFLA 13:05:51 09/21/07 (3)
- Giving credit where it's due... - kerr 13:36:54 09/21/07 (2)
- RE: Giving credit where it's due... - AJinFLA 13:44:59 09/21/07 (1)
- Hey -- awesome! - kerr 17:07:15 09/21/07 (0)
- Impossible, I haven't been incorrect since 1964 - Richard BassNut Greene 08:48:24 09/20/07 (0)
- "But decades of blind test results ..." - bjh 08:04:14 09/20/07 (0)
- Missing a point? - tomservo 10:43:32 09/19/07 (11)
- Missing a point? Let's check: Engineering theory-no Measurements-no Ears-yes Brain-no. Hey, 1 of 4 ain't bad :-) - AJinFLA 15:16:27 09/19/07 (0)
- RE: Missing a point? - thetubeguy1954 14:27:03 09/19/07 (9)
- Sorry to hear - Russ57 15:39:01 09/19/07 (8)
- RE: Sorry to hear - AJinFLA 16:04:13 09/19/07 (7)
- A work in progress - Russ57 16:52:28 09/19/07 (6)
- Slow work takes time - AJinFLA 14:14:19 09/20/07 (5)
- RE: Slow work takes time - The Bored 14:58:33 09/20/07 (4)
- "Banner"? What's that? "Audio Circle"? Who they? Worth checking out? Are they competitors? nt - clarkjohnsen 08:43:38 09/21/07 (0)
- RE: Slow work takes time - AJinFLA 15:07:53 09/20/07 (2)
- RE: Slow work takes time - The Bored 15:16:46 09/20/07 (1)
- RE: Slow work takes time - AJinFLA 15:57:07 09/20/07 (0)
- The correct answer is "all of the above"...(nt) - mkuller 09:29:55 09/19/07 (0)
- 1977 Stereophile Article on Amplifier Distortion - geoffkait 09:11:08 09/19/07 (15)
- RE: 1977 Stereophile Article on Amplifier Distortion - Awe-d-o-file 17:19:28 09/20/07 (1)
- RE: 1977 Stereophile Article on Amplifier Distortion - geoffkait 07:25:19 09/21/07 (0)
- Well, well, well - clarkjohnsen 10:38:39 09/19/07 (12)
- You are so wrong it is beyond pathetic! - bjh 12:14:24 09/19/07 (11)
- "What is it the objectivists never tire of telling us?" ...... That you are a buffoon? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:34:40 09/20/07 (4)
- I was... - bjh 09:39:47 09/20/07 (0)
- Richard, BJH Is An Equal Opportunity Meglomaniac - thetubeguy1954 08:44:54 09/20/07 (2)
- Is that good or bad? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:58:42 09/20/07 (1)
- It's BJH, It HAS To Be Bad - thetubeguy1954 11:54:43 09/20/07 (0)
- BJH You are so wrong it is beyond pathetic! - thetubeguy1954 06:04:12 09/20/07 (5)
- "Then these same lovers of measurements and DBTs..." And there you have it! - clarkjohnsen 08:39:59 09/20/07 (0)
- RE: BJH You are so wrong it is beyond pathetic! - bjh 07:25:49 09/20/07 (3)
- Uh-oh (nt) - AJinFLA 07:36:38 09/20/07 (2)
- I wish he would learn his limits ... - bjh 07:44:01 09/20/07 (1)
- BGH I Still Remember When You Thought EVERYONE - thetubeguy1954 08:30:22 09/20/07 (0)
- Regarding the former, everyone's gotta read Charles Hansen's forceful letter on p.208 of the Oct. SP. nt - clarkjohnsen 08:42:18 09/19/07 (2)
- Can you summarize it for me as I'm no longer a reader of either? - tlyyra 12:23:03 09/19/07 (0)
- SP eh. Hang on, I'll retrieve it from the bottom of the bird cage....Ran out of newspaper y'know (nt) - AJinFLA 10:30:44 09/19/07 (0)
- The third option truthseekerprime mentioned - KlausR. 05:06:52 09/19/07 (23)
- I'm game! - bjh 10:08:40 09/19/07 (6)
- ps - bjh 05:15:09 09/20/07 (5)
- I think you are third on the list - Russ57 13:58:23 09/20/07 (4)
- I dunno... - bjh 14:24:24 09/20/07 (3)
- I'm Willing To Forward The CD - thetubeguy1954 05:24:09 09/21/07 (2)
- Thanks, you have mail. PLUS ---) Suggestion for Participants (-- - bjh 08:00:43 09/21/07 (1)
- Everything is on one CD - Russ57 16:01:16 09/21/07 (0)
- RE: The third option truthseekerprime mentioned - thetubeguy1954 05:55:42 09/19/07 (15)
- RE: Points 1-3 - KlausR. 06:58:00 09/19/07 (6)
- RE: Points 1-3 - thetubeguy1954 10:31:04 09/19/07 (0)
- I am game but... - Russ57 07:37:40 09/19/07 (4)
- Hey Russ57 - thetubeguy1954 07:01:36 09/20/07 (2)
- Did you get my email? - Russ57 07:15:51 09/21/07 (1)
- RE: Did you get my email? - thetubeguy1954 09:16:07 09/21/07 (0)
- You have mail... - KlausR. 09:22:59 09/19/07 (0)
- "...yet not one Objectivist will come here so I can provide said proof!" - truthseekerprime 06:05:59 09/19/07 (7)
- RE: "...yet not one Objectivist will come here so I can provide said proof!" - thetubeguy1954 10:32:51 09/19/07 (0)
- Come where? The haunted house silly! How else ya gonna hear dem ghosts? Over the telephone line? Sheesh (nt) - AJinFLA 06:28:17 09/19/07 (5)
- I'm scared! - truthseekerprime 06:44:47 09/19/07 (4)
- Do you remember the Singing Frog? - AJinFLA 07:43:14 09/19/07 (3)
- My hero! - Pat D 12:42:36 09/21/07 (0)
- One of the greatest cartoons of all time! - andy_c 17:16:19 09/19/07 (1)
- Oh yes and for those not as familiar, the gentleman did end up in...an Asylum :-). (nt) - AJinFLA 07:47:21 09/22/07 (0)
- Yup yup, I'm certain, that one was .05% THD, the one just before was .03%. - bjh 22:41:20 09/18/07 (0)
- RE: A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents - Todd Krieger 20:41:47 09/18/07 (1)
- Good post.... - SF tech 21:13:13 09/18/07 (0)
- or 3) the test subject hasn't learned to correlate measured parameters with what he thinks he's hearing. n/t - Ugly 20:38:25 09/18/07 (1)
- Test? Correlate?? Measure??? Parameters???? THINK?????....Huh?..What? n/t - AJinFLA 15:22:51 09/19/07 (0)
- or my response, 3) I'm too lazy. -nt - Axon 20:29:53 09/18/07 (0)
- looking for elephants with a microscope. - chris_w 16:25:35 09/18/07 (2)
- RE: looking for elephants with a microscope. - Todd Krieger 20:52:55 09/18/07 (1)
- RE: looking for elephants with a microscope. - chris_w 00:39:55 09/19/07 (0)
- I'm afraid you missed something... - truthseekerprime 14:52:23 09/18/07 (4)
- RE: I'm afraid you missed something... - Todd Krieger 21:02:56 09/18/07 (3)
- "But the problem isn't whether or not measurements are more-sensitive within each measurement's scope" - truthseekerprime 05:59:34 09/19/07 (0)
- That *can* be shown. - tlyyra 04:26:54 09/19/07 (1)
- What about... - bjh 14:29:40 09/19/07 (0)
- Engineers figured out how to design good voltage multipliers in the 1960's - Richard BassNut Greene 13:42:12 09/18/07 (3)
- RE: Engineers figured out how to design good voltage multipliers in the 1960's - morricab 09:14:24 09/20/07 (0)
- RE: Engineers figured out how to design good voltage multipliers in the 1960's - rick_m 20:53:07 09/19/07 (0)
- I Know YOU Believe This Richard - thetubeguy1954 14:21:55 09/18/07 (0)
- You need to understand the measurements before you start dismissing them as irrelevant. (nt) - SF tech 13:18:08 09/18/07 (22)
- Typical Objectivist Response - thetubeguy1954 14:12:46 09/18/07 (21)
- Hmmm . . . you give some amp specs but not the frequency response. - Pat D 18:56:57 09/19/07 (10)
- RE: Hmmm . . . you give some amp specs but not the frequency response. - thetubeguy1954 06:42:04 09/20/07 (9)
- RE: Hmmm . . . you give some amp specs but not the frequency response. - Pat D 11:49:48 09/20/07 (8)
- RE: Hmmm . . . you give some amp specs but not the frequency response. - thetubeguy1954 13:36:49 09/20/07 (7)
- You missed the point about your confusing specs and measurements. - Pat D 15:12:03 09/20/07 (6)
- Sorry You Cannot Follow This Simple Posts. I Cannot Dumb Them Down Any Further For You.... - thetubeguy1954 19:06:47 09/20/07 (5)
- Just because measurements are of no use to *you* for predicting sound quality . . . - Pat D 06:12:20 09/21/07 (4)
- RE: Just because measurements are of no use to *you* for predicting sound quality . . . - thetubeguy1954 07:45:54 09/21/07 (3)
- RE: Just because measurements are of no use to *you* for predicting sound quality . . . - Pat D 08:28:34 09/21/07 (2)
- RE: Just because measurements are of no use to *you* for predicting sound quality . . . - thetubeguy1954 13:45:18 09/21/07 (1)
- So now you change your ground . . . - Pat D 17:09:50 09/21/07 (0)
- "I don't just dismiss measurements..." You just did! - SF tech 14:38:25 09/18/07 (9)
- RE: "I don't just dismiss measurements..." You just did! - thetubeguy1954 06:21:31 09/19/07 (6)
- Sorry, you're backtracking... - SF tech 14:01:39 09/19/07 (5)
- RE: Sorry, you're backtracking... - thetubeguy1954 09/20/0708:37:26 09/20/07 (4)
- You seem to have a pathological need to label people on this forum... - SF tech 11:48:21 09/20/07 (3)
- RE: You seem to have a pathological need to label people on this forum... - thetubeguy1954 14:22:12 09/20/07 (2)
- Nah, I'm done trying to talk sense to you... - SF tech 15:01:30 09/20/07 (1)
- Nah, You're Just Tired Of Being Shown To Be Wrong! - thetubeguy1954 19:11:23 09/20/07 (0)
- RE: "I don't just dismiss measurements..." You just did! - theaudiohobby 05:14:16 09/19/07 (1)
- RE: "I don't just dismiss measurements..." You just did! - thetubeguy1954 06:24:46 09/19/07 (0)
Follow Ups
- RE: Sorry, you're backtracking... - thetubeguy1954 09/20/0708:37:26 09/20/07 (4)
- You seem to have a pathological need to label people on this forum... - SF tech 11:48:21 09/20/07 (3)
- RE: You seem to have a pathological need to label people on this forum... - thetubeguy1954 14:22:12 09/20/07 (2)
- Nah, I'm done trying to talk sense to you... - SF tech 15:01:30 09/20/07 (1)
- Nah, You're Just Tired Of Being Shown To Be Wrong! - thetubeguy1954 19:11:23 09/20/07 (0)
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