In Reply to: RE: Does your "Objectivists" exist? posted by thetubeguy1954 on September 20, 2007 at 05:45:06:
You don't even understand the most basic fact about objectivity applied to home audio: The whole purpose of objective experiments is to replace beliefs with test results.
That means using the words "objectivist" and "believe" in the same sentence, as you did, is an oxymoron.
No test is perfect.
Even a very good blind test methodology will have a 4% chance of positive results from lucky guessing.
But decades of blind test results consistently offer a different view of audiophiles that does not match the incredible hearing ability claimed during subjective component evaluations:
For a typical subjective component evaluation (often not even done at home using a familiar stereo system!)
(1) The audiophile walks in assuming virtually all components sound different
(2) The audiophile walks in assuming he can usually hear differences among components
(3) The audiophile has already read something positive (usually) about one or both components
(4) Peer pressure exists, or is imagined: "I can't hear a difference" is a statement that screams 'novice audiophile' to most fellow audiophiles, ... and may feel like saying "I am inferior" to the audiophile himself.
Even if "I can't hear a difference" is said in spite of the envisioned peer pressure and/or character attacks that will result, the person who says it will usually be subjected to real peer pressure from other audiophiles and/or a salesman to badger him to change his initial opinion.
(5) The two components evaluated will be playing music at different SPL's so it may be possible to hear a difference that has absolutely nothing to do with a meaningful sound quality difference.
Many potential biases and peer pressure can be reduced by hiding the brand names, at least from the listener (single blind), and making sure both components play music at the same SPL. This can have absolutely no effect on sound quality if done by wire swapping.
Of course a a listener can still imagine he hears differences, as many do in blind tests, but if the listener goes through a little extra effort to guess which component is in use, and later compares his guesses with reality, he may find out how easy it is to imagine hearing differences because "hearing differences is what real audiophiles are supposed to do"
Objectivity is about replacing beliefs with more objective data.
Objective data are evidence of a hypothesis, and sometimes proof.
Data apply only to the people involved in the test and the stereo used.
But if many people have similar test results over a long period of time, that may be decent evidence of a more general hypothesis about audiophiles such as "Audiophiles usually overstate their ability to hear differences among audio components", or "TubeGuy's mother wears Army Boots".
Some people will avoid tests so they can always treasure their beliefs about how well they hear. Having beliefs that one is superior to the average person in some way(s) is comforting to many people, and boosts their ego. These beliefs are a mandatory qualification for entry into the "country club" of high-end audiophiles. No statement about what is heard, no matter how bizarre, is ever questioned.
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Richard BassNut Greene
Subjective Audiophile 2007
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Follow Ups
- "Personally I don't understand a good portion of what a lot of the Objectivists here believe ... " - Richard BassNut Greene 09/20/0707:40:35 09/20/07 (26)
- Sorry Richard But You're Incorrect! - thetubeguy1954 08:24:57 09/20/07 (24)
- RE: Sorry Richard But You're Incorrect! - Steve Eddy 08:59:50 09/20/07 (22)
- Actually Steve - thetubeguy1954 05:54:49 09/21/07 (21)
- RE: Actually Steve - Steve Eddy 09:02:23 09/21/07 (20)
- I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - thetubeguy1954 09:13:43 09/21/07 (19)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - Steve Eddy 09:42:05 09/21/07 (18)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - thetubeguy1954 11:03:17 09/21/07 (17)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - Steve Eddy 12:02:45 09/21/07 (16)
- Oh, NO!!!!! - kerr 13:35:00 09/21/07 (3)
- RE: Oh, NO!!!!! - thetubeguy1954 15:10:32 09/23/07 (0)
- RE: Oh, NO!!!!! - AJinFLA 13:57:35 09/21/07 (1)
- RE: Oh, NO!!!!! - kerr 17:00:01 09/21/07 (0)
- a) Taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision...Bingo! (nt) - AJinFLA 13:08:30 09/21/07 (0)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - thetubeguy1954 12:36:34 09/21/07 (1)
- RE: I don't Know Of ANY Objectivists Here Who... - Steve Eddy 19:35:48 09/21/07 (0)
- Oh..no... I sense a YOU! WRONG! LIAR! forthcoming (nt) - AJinFLA 12:13:45 09/21/07 (8)
- Say it isn't so! (nt) - Pat D 12:34:33 09/21/07 (7)
- it isn't so! - thetubeguy1954 12:42:07 09/21/07 (6)
- Are you the guy that found the singing frog? (nt) - Pat D 12:49:09 09/21/07 (5)
- Nah The Frog Is A "Bi" Product Of You & Your Little Buddy FroLicking In The Playpen (nt) - thetubeguy1954 13:32:13 09/21/07 (0)
- VERY provocative Pat. You liked that one huh :-) (nt) - AJinFLA 13:05:51 09/21/07 (3)
- Giving credit where it's due... - kerr 13:36:54 09/21/07 (2)
- RE: Giving credit where it's due... - AJinFLA 13:44:59 09/21/07 (1)
- Hey -- awesome! - kerr 17:07:15 09/21/07 (0)
- Impossible, I haven't been incorrect since 1964 - Richard BassNut Greene 08:48:24 09/20/07 (0)
- "But decades of blind test results ..." - bjh 08:04:14 09/20/07 (0)