Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics.

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Re: MFC, you're still wasting your time...

Posted by Steve Eddy on July 19, 2003 at 15:59:38

In Reply to: MFC, you're still wasting your time... posted by Charles Hansen on July 19, 2003 at 07:00:13:

Steve will never agree, because he has never had the same experiences you've had.

Hmmmm.

Above you ripped Dan for telling you what output devices you're using in your equipment.

And previously you asked me if I thought I was the Queen of England for suggesting you read someone else's posts on the feedback issue.

Yet here you are claiming to know what my experiences have been.

So I think it's well within reason to ask you just who the hell do you think YOU are? Beside a pompous hyporcite.

Steve wrote, "there's no third "hyper conscious" state we can shift into such that we can distinguish the perceived differences from the actual audible differences".

This is actually false. There is in fact a multiplicity of waking conscious states. As established by brainwave studies beginning in the early '50s, there are four classified states of consciousness possible during the waking phase. These are called beta, alpha, delta, and theta, and are classified by the frequency of the brainwaves based on EEG measurements.

If Beta, Alpha, Theta and Delta are all waking states of consciousness, then what are the sleeping states? Delta activity denotes the deepest stages of sleep (and Theta the onset of sleep) so how can Delta also be a waking state?

What is considered "normal" to western European cultures (such as ours) is the beta state. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that this is the worst state for learning, retention, perception, athletic performance, et cetera, et cetera. On the other hand, these same things are optimized in the alpha state.

Actually learning and perception (at least of our physical surroundings) are at their best in Beta. Why do you think students who are chronically sleep deprived do so poorly? The sleep depravation causes them to go through the day in an Alpha state where they have a hard time concentrating and paying attention which manifests itself once test time comes around.

The Beta state is the most externalized state in which we are most cognizant of our physical surroundings. As we move from Beta to Alpha, we become more internalized and more detached from our physical surroundings.

You may be familiar with the alpha state from other names such as the "zone" sports books that were popular in the '80s (Tennis in the Zone, Golf in the Zone, et cetera).

Yes, and I utilize that phenomenon quite frequently.

But this doesn't really work well in this context.

In sports or other activities that involve repetetive acts, once you've performed those acts thousands of times, you eventually develop an internal, intuitive sense for what is the "right" way to perform the act.

When you're in full-blown Beta, our most externalized state, our intuitive sense becomes more overshadowed and performance is more "mechanical."

"The Zone" is that delicate balance between Beta and Alpha where you're just enough into Alpha that the intuitive sense is able to make it to the surface but no so far out of Beta that you're just standing there like an idiot while your opponent bounces balls off your head.

Had a fourth grade teacher who used to prey on kids who fell too far into Alpha by bouncing chalk erasers off their heads.

There are several ways to enter the alpha state, including (to name just a few) sports, meditation, drawing, painting, observing wildlife, and (surprise!) listening to or playing music!

Yes. By the way, I play guitar.

But the Alpha state being more internalized, we're actually paying less attention to the finer details the more deeply into the Alpha state we get. The Alpha state rather applies a soft focus lens to physical reality.

This might explain why if you look at the audio systems of even the most talented and accomplished musicians, you find that they're typically very modest by audiophile standards, often being little more than your typical mass market fare.

I think this is because musicians operate more in the Alpha state and don't listen to music in the Beta state that most audiophiles tend to listen to music. Instead of being obsessed with the microscopic details of the music, it's the broader, more intuitive or spiritual side of music that they connect with.

On the other hand, one good way to make sure you stay in the beta state is to participate in a double-blind test (unless you happen to be trained in maintaining states of concsiousness).

When it comes to detecting fine differences, the Beta state would be the state to be in.

A guy like Steve obviously never spends any time in alpha.

And you obviously haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about.

I listen pretty much exclusively in the Alpha state. Which is why you never see me talking about how something sounds. I simply go by my intuitive response, or gestalt if you will. What some might call the "goosebump factor" or the "toe-tapping factor." I couldn't enjoy listening in the Beta state, analytical fashion that most audiophiles seem to listen.

Trying to tell him about *real* audible differences in audio equipment is literally like trying to describe colors to a blind man.

And how exactly are you able to distinguish subjective perception due to real audible differences and subjective perception due to other influences? Are you claiming that you're fully conscious of your subconscious mind and all of its influences on your conscious mind?

I wouldn't bother wasting my time.

But you don't mind wasting other peoples' time with bullshit posts like this, dictating to others what their experiences have been, how they listen, etc.

se

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