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RE: I don't have time for this :^ )

Posted by Dawnrazor (A) on November 12, 2009 at 10:02:18

In Reply to: I don't have time for this :^ ) posted by Peter Gunn on November 10, 2009 at 08:38:22:

Hey PG,


I'm not like some others here who save URL's to one day whip them out and scream AH-HA!". By "chide" I mean the good natured ribbing we have given each other about the way we each do things, which are quite different.

Thanks for clearing that up. I misunderstood what you meant by chide.


I'm not wadded because someone found a "better" way, I'm just struck by the irony that you came round to my way, thru an odd back door. Makes me feel like I've been talking to a wall for 5 years.

Well, I HAVE been listening and that is why I even tried this. If you recall, I never said the wood wasnt a great idea. Just because I didnt rush out and make some frames certainly doesnt mean that I was not convinced.

You mention not having a day off for 3 months. In the past I had a job that I was good at but it was killing me. 75% travel. Sure I had 2 days off a week and one week I would work from home. Some people might really enjoy that kind of life, but not me, not at that point in my life. I would spend my days off just sitting around not wanting to do ANYTHING. My wife said I was always in a funk, either exhausted after a trip, or dreading another one. Getting laid off was one of the best things to happen and now I enjoy my time off and have done so much more audiowise in the last few months than I did in the 5 years before.

mdf doesn't absorb anything. It was designed to be inert. That's why even steel absorbs more than it will.

I agree and this has shown that those vibes are reflected back and muck things up.

I don't know what theory that is, and I disagree completely. Energy is energy, and a woods cell structure doesn't care if it's 20khz or 2khz going thru it. It's going to shift in response to it and dissipate it.

Woods cells act like the shocks on a car. That's what they are designed to do. Does your car have different shocks for various size potholes?

PG every material has its own resonance frequency AFAIK and probably handles different frequencies differently. And if you take two materials and add them it can be magical for the right combo. That is what I am talking about. If you have to soak up vibration before ti is returned to the mylar, then you want to get it all. IMHO you need different materials. If what you say about energy is true, then the material wouldnt matter. I could say that the dynamat shifts the energy and dissipates it...it does. But that over simplifies things.

Easy. We don't want to kill vibration, we want to remove it once it's done. It's when this energy hits the mdf and then comes back and mucks up the next energy that we get our problem.

If we have the drivers in wood, it does this, so...

Adding goop to the wood would be pointless and

I tend to agree with this as the stated goal...to absorb the energy so it doesnt get back to the driver.

Not sure it would be pointless though. Less effective perhaps to add it to the wood, but to the driver frame I think that would help.

Adding it to the metal edges of a driver already in wood may actually prematurely kill the original vibration. We want the tone to resonate when it gets produced, we just don't want it to interfere with the next one. How sucky would a violin sound if you wrapped it in dynamat?

This is really the crux of the matter IMHO. What produces the tone that we want? The MYLAR. We dont want anything else to resonate but the mylar. The frame shouldnt resonate nor should the pole pieces or anything else but the mylar. You have repeatedly argued that the wood frames DONT resonate and that different wood doesnt sound differently and that this application is not like a violin....but now you ARE talking about the frames resonating!!! Which personally I think is what happens. The wood imparts a nice tone. Nothing wrong with that.

The wood draws these vibrations out and lets them die off without going back on the driver, your way kills them immediately. That has to sound different, and IMHO can't be better. Notes are meant to decay.

Yes they are, but that decay should come from the mylar not anything else. If you suck up those vibrations from the non-mylar parts than they dont have any time to muck things up. Removing the vibration from the pole pieces for instance is a significant improvement as it allows the mylar to produce the decay.

I'm not trying to sell you anything. I also truly believe it is the right way. I am not PC, I believe truths exist, and better should be lauded for being better. That's how we all improve. So as far as results, looks and everything else, making frames from wood cannot be excelled, IMHO. That makes it the right way, until a better way comes along which so far has not.

Sure, everyone has an opinion. I for one would have a problem making a blanket statement like that last sentence without trying some different ways first. But looking back I am sure I told my parents that I hated broccoli without trying it :)


Thanks, but I already knew that it was right. It is good to hear you agree though. I just wish your visit to me years ago wasn't so early on in my process. I also recall things weren't ideal at that visit but I don't recall why. (the XO breaking in and sounding crap?) If you heard the "state of the art" now you'd realize why I feel the way I do about it.

Actually I think things were good. I dont remember any changes to the recipe since my visit. You had the SMG (the first one you did I think) and a pair of 1.6s you were thinking of buying. AFAICT that was the state of the art, and I dont know what was less then ideal. I don't recall you mentioning anything like that.


Well then, I say take that A in shop and go do it already. In fact, if you just make frames (no bases, boxes or struts) in oak it will cost you less than the dynamat will. Then email me for my XO schematic and do the whole thing right.

I guess you missed that the A was not deserved at all. I was given an A because I was a great student and the instructor didnt want to mess up my gpa....and I am going to biamp.

Cut to razor sounding violins

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