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RE: Roe vs Wade

Posted by RGA (R) on December 3, 2021 at 04:07:20

In Reply to: RE: Roe vs Wade posted by emailtim on December 2, 2021 at 11:28:31:

Abortion already has limits so the question is a reasonable one if the common ground on discussions like this one will ever reach any sort of agreement.

Usually, that means we start with the most extreme cases like incest and when the mother will die during childbirth.

Scenario 1: Mother will die if she carries a fetus to term. And let's say when the baby is born it will die within 2 minutes. Is it okay for her to choose to save her own life and have an abortion? Yes/No.

Basically, we use "hypotheticals" to see if the person we are having a discussion with is even slightly reasonable in the debate. If they give the sensible answer to scenario 1 then that person is worth engaging with further.

You can then present arguments from both sides to convince the other to change their view.

I took a contemporary moral problems philosophy course at university and abortion, euthanasia, capital punishment were some of the issues. We had to write an essay outline where we would take our position on the issue. So I, as a pro-choice person, write my outline. The professor gave all our outlines back with a twist - we had to write for the opposite side" so I had to write for the Pro-life stance. By doing that research and not arguing BS on the internet or watching TV pundits I was able to write a very strong case for Pro-Life! Yes, a Liberal pro-choicer writing for the Pro-Life stance. This is the entire point of university, which isn't the case in every university, to be exposed to "uncomfortable" ideas and to really work at it. Some of those ideas may stick some will not but you gain more of an appreciation for WHY people believe what they believe. Albeit it is far easier in a university than on Inmate Central.

And I read a lot of Pro-Life philosophers in my research and the interesting part is they avoided any appeals to religion or God because those are always weak arguments in philosophy as they get into circular logic.

The way to convince people is often not trying to move mountains in a day but to gradually make various tertiary points to get them to see the light, as it were, on their own.

You don't want to be getting into the 'it's a baby, it's a fetus' argument because science is a safe haven for us liberals. When in doubt we will head for science even though liberals all know that a fetus is going to become a baby after a certain period of time - it may not be "technically" according to science but it is logical. So make the points sidestepping God and science. Go to points about the economy and strains on medical system doctor's time. Ie; use the points that liberals are for like improving healthcare.

The thing is no one listens to the other side. Take Planned Parenthood - they advise the vast majority of women NOT to have an abortion but they do advise some women to have them. The media gets into it to sensationalize it and boom no more Planned Parenthood - when they close abortion rates went up not down. You're trying to get to zero abortion but you can't and you never will - what you CAN do is reduce the number of abortions - I as a liberal am 100% with you on reducing abortions. Maybe we have different reasons - mine doesn't come from religion but who cares right - you want liberals to want to reduce abortion you have one in me! But you have to work with me a little bit so we can have our wishes become a reality.

Anger led to making more abortions with planed parenthood and absitence only programs. I am still pro-choice but I would like to call it a Pro-better choice. Start this in school and for the love of might abstinence-only is no use. The human-animal wants sex, sex and more sex in teen years. They're gonna have it so they need to be prepared. That means boys are not embarrassed to buy condoms and means, girls, using contraceptives etc and getting on the pill. You have to accept the fact that not everyone comes from your particular religion or religious viewpoint - they are not going to listen to your priest or pastor or read your bible on the matter. So you need to convince them on their terms.

So for Pro-Life - I would make the case that abortions are a large drain financially on the medical system. When a woman comes in for her third abortion there is a problem. Ditto if a man has impregnated 4 women and pressures them into getting abortions. What can and should we do to prevent these scenarios?

I am very big on preventatives, not reactions. If we can all prevent a woman from getting an unwanted pregnancy in the first place then we all don't have to be shouting at each other when it happens. And if fewer women get pregnant the community is FAR better able to come together to help the fewer women in terms of financial need. The system won't be overburdened. Society can then financially raise her kid or as some suggest have her put the baby up for adoption.

It's pro-choice, not Pro-death remember. The problem with the choice part is, as you know, when the woman is put into a situation where her choices are horrendously bad or worse. Girls at 15/16 are not the best decision-makers so some of them choose abortion because they're too afraid to tell their dad. That, as we can all agree, is a pretty dumbass reason to have an abortion.

That's why I mean we need better choices and that's what organizations like Planned parenthood deal with - they could convince that girl to talk to their families and serve as a broker between parent and child. When that stopped those girls are using coathangers in back alleys.

Lastly, and this is a complete political aspect to this argument - I am assuming here that Trump voters and Republicans are Pro-life - it is, for many, a single vote issue. Dems pro-choice so they will never get a vote -doesn't matter what else they do - if they gave you a million bucks - you won't vote for them. So I can actually respect that. Thus, no Republicans who are Christians will get abortions correct? So basically, Trump supporters and Republicans want to force Democrats to have more Democrat babies correct? Think that through.

Florida was second in the US in number of abortions with 71,914 and as no Republicans who are Christians/Catholics would be in that abortion count that means democrats would have added add 71,914 little Biden voters (well whoever the democrat running 21 years later is). Maybe take that 71,914 every year for 20 years! Democratic voters everywhere!!!!

Florida is an important swing state that has gone GOP - barely. You want to add hundreds of thousands to millions of little democrats over the next 20 years?

You know what the third biggest state for abortions was? Yup another red state - Texas. 57,275 abortions. Once again they must all be Democrats because no Republican Christian would get one so once again you want 57,275 more little Obama supporting anti-gun screaming democrats in yer red state - Red State but gee getting real close to 50-50 could go either way there already. Another 500,000+ democrats over 20 years?

Next biggest Illinois with $46,000+
Georgia 36,900
Michigan 27,339
North Carolina $28,450
Pensylvania - $31,000

Seems like some swing states would be adding a lot of little Clintons (oh no)

New York was first 78,500 and California was not reported (so probably first).

I mean I dunno - you might want to prevent those evil atheist democrats from breeding? And you don't need abortion laws for Trump and Republican Christians because they would never ever have an abortion in the first place.

I dunno man - it seems like you guys are helping to breed those hellbound evil atheist commie democrats. Stopping abortion is the best thing you can do for the Democratic party! They'll outbreed you.

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