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RE: You seem to forget...

Posted by RGA (R) on September 14, 2020 at 19:03:48

In Reply to: You seem to forget... posted by E-Stat on September 14, 2020 at 16:20:50:

The same arguments were made when Min wage was 1/5th what they are now. Yes I agree that company owners may hurry the process so on that I agree with you. I think we both agree that a business owner is in business to make money and thus will always look for ways to reduce costs.

However, you never seem to look at bigger picture ramifications or agendas. To you they bring in kiosks to reduce having to pay a worker - that is ONE part of it. Other parts of it - is being technologically hip for the young crowd to be out front of the competition. In HK - you can order your latte at Starbucks on your phone as you arrive on the train to the metro station so that you get off the train walk to the Starbucks and your latte is waiting for you - they scan your phone and it's paid - perhaps you can pay for it from your phone.

McDonald's and KFC bring in the Kiosks - - they reduce counter staff - BUT they hire more people for deliveries. Yes McDonald's and KFC do home delivery here. So the employees are not necessarily cut, but shifted to other work. And yes when robots can drive cars and make deliveries those jobs will end because it will be "cool" and "cutting edge" and employees will be replaced - regardless of their salary.

I get your ultra capitalist want no minimum wage - zero free services approach. I worked at McDonalds for 3 years and that was a helluva motivator for me to buckle down in high school get an education so that I would not be cooking Big Macs all my life. Plus, I hated working gruelling shifts for low wages and smelling like a hamburger on my walk home. Seeing any sort of large dog was terrifying. :)

Again this is a micro view of the issue. Back in my day and further back in your day - higher education as a relation to the average income was far lower.

1) Cost of Higher education was much MUCH lower
2) More available quality paying careers.
3) More tough love societal structures. Back in my dad's day and in mine - parents sided with teachers - there was more discipline. There was more focus on real achievement over the modern "everyone gets a ribbon" mentality.

The problem with the cost to the bottom proposition is that the rest of society winds up picking up the bill later.

So in the world of no min wage - I can see this scenario.

McDonald's outlet interviews 3 candidates. All three sit in a chair and the owner of outlet says - "Who is willing to take $4 an hour?" All three put up their hands. Okay "Who is willing to take $2 and hour?" 1 leaves. "Okay who is willing to take $1 and hour?" 1 candidate left and gets the job.

McDonald's is filled with the most desperate people - all of whom have to apply for food stamps which is paid by taxes that E-Stat, Inmate51 and RGA have to pay. We are the ones who make up the difference so that the owner of the McDonald's gets to make more money - so we are paying for his BMW even though we may not go to his restaurant. Why should we subsidize the business?

The minimum wage being higher means that they are not on food stamps - we do not pay for the subsidy - yes we may pay an extra $0.25 for the Big Mac but at least we have the choice to buy the big mac or not.

Now we could say let's not provide the poor with any subsidies - let's screw em but good. Marie Antoinette had the same opinion. The US equivalent to that leadership is via CEOs and the mega rich.

That is what Billionaire Nick Hannaur was talking about. It's not a left or right thing or even about the notion of quitting lousy low paying jobs and working hard to get a better job. It's about the macro level reality.

The fact is the situation we find ourselves - everyone gets a ribbon and your self esteem is valued over results. Good mid level jobs are disappearing and the cost of a good University is sky high.

And as Nick noted - they (the poor and the lower end of the middle class - who are also poor) have big numbers and one day might come for him and his ilk and even your ilk or my ilk with a guillotine. The economy is FAR better off when more people make more money - even if you think their job can be done by a monkey. Even the plutocrat gets this.

Lastly - on the micro level I do agree with you. I would not spend time trying to fight McDonald's over increased pay - I would rather spend that energy and time to get a better career/job. But those jobs are not there. The jobs at the top are there. But those jobs of 2 year college certificates - your accounting clerks, inside sales, School support workers, school librarians etc are gone. There is a vacuum that is not filled by anything. And the population is growing.

So you can be highly qualified where in your day there was 10 jobs available and only 3 people to fill it - people walked out of University in the 60/70s and walked into a full time nice paying job with nary an interview! Now there is 1 job and 200 applicants all of whom are far FAR more qualified that the the 3 people who walked into jobs in the 70s.

• https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocr   (Open in New Window)

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