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In Reply to: No blame for the system, but for those who are shaping it. posted by viridian on September 13, 2020 at 08:30:39:
The problem with third party is that it typically siphons votes away from the party that has the best chance to win.In Canada we have a similar issue to the US. We have 5 major parties but only two have ever held government. The Conservatives and the Liberals. The conservatives (Republican light) have about 30% of the popular vote.
Before Trudeau they were in power for 9 years under Harper. Why - because the Liberals, NDP and Greens were splitting the vote.
So in a given riding the Conservative would get 4,000 and the Liberal would get 3,000 votes, the NDP 2,000 votes and the Greens 500 votes. Conservative wins. But the "left" was beating them 5500 to 4000 combined.
Eventually, Canadians got organized and employed "strategic voting" so that in a given riding if the strongest candidate was a Green - then Liberal voters and NDP voters switched their vote to the Green party member - and vice versa. Basically - people voted for whoever it would take to beat the conservative.
I took an online survey to see how I lined up and I was basically in agreement with the NDP, Greens and liberals to the tune of 94-96% and the Conservatives a not too terrible 40%.
But the point is the three left parties are in agreement with each other at about a 95% rate - they quibble on how to address Climate Change or some other issue - but at least they know it's real - they believe in science and know the earth is billions of years old.
The Canadian system is different of course with our majority minority governments where as it is a minority government right now - Trudeau has to wheel and deal with the NDP and Greens - he has to make the odd concession to them to let them win something to have something he wants put through.
In the US - AOC has said that if she and Biden were in another country they would not belong to the same party. With the DNC pulling out all the stops to crush Bernie Sanders - she is correct. As ex military and police officer trainer Beau noted Bernie is a compromise position for the "left of the two right wing" parties in the US.
But as I said below - this political stuff grows tiresome. In the end you got your vote and you do with it what you can. I understand why people move to remote areas of their countries and basically stay as far off the grid as possible. And pray they don't come and shoot you.
As I live in Hong Kong - I will just try and get X number of years here in as I can and then head back to Canada. I am fortunate to have a powerful passport. Most others on this blue ball of ours are not so fortunate.
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Follow Ups
- RE: No blame for the system, but for those who are shaping it. - RGA 09/13/2008:57:20 09/13/20 (60)
- RE: No blame for the system, but for those who are shaping it. - rivervalley817 09:24:36 09/13/20 (0)
- In the US, third parties shoot for the moon. - ghost of olddude55 09:09:26 09/13/20 (58)
- Sorry - had to correct a few errors in my above post... - RGA 19:19:07 09/13/20 (0)
- What the hell is the point of a vote that "doesn't count"? - Rick W 10:02:46 09/13/20 (55)
- My vote didn't count. Just what I said. - ghost of olddude55 10:24:20 09/13/20 (51)
- I certainly agree that the electoral college should go the way of the dodo. nt - Rick W 10:37:56 09/13/20 (50)
- I don't.... - Rod M 18:11:59 09/13/20 (12)
- +1 Rod and I am far to the left, but that is exactly why the system exists. nt - viridian 10:50:22 09/14/20 (5)
- RE: +1 Rod and I am far to the left, but that is exactly why the system exists. nt - rivervalley817 11:29:20 09/14/20 (4)
- Interesting observation, I started identifying as far left durning the Vietnam war, not recently. Nt - viridian 12:00:39 09/14/20 (3)
- RE: Interesting observation, I started identifying as far left durning the Vietnam war, not recently. Nt - rivervalley817 12:14:25 09/14/20 (2)
- Sorry, I was not clear.... - viridian 13:27:14 09/14/20 (1)
- RE: Sorry, I was not clear.... - rivervalley817 13:41:58 09/14/20 (0)
- Instead, you have votes in cities counting for less than votes in rural areas. - ghost of olddude55 04:32:48 09/14/20 (1)
- RE: Instead, you have votes in cities counting for less than votes in rural areas. - rivervalley817 11:22:08 09/14/20 (0)
- With slaves counting 3/5ths the south had the most population. - Rick W 19:49:21 09/13/20 (0)
- RE: I don't.... - RGA 19:43:05 09/13/20 (0)
- RE: I don't.... - immatthewj 18:16:31 09/13/20 (1)
- Stupidity, illiteracy, the product of our educational system - PabloP 19:32:42 09/13/20 (0)
- RE: I certainly agree that the electoral college should go the way of the dodo. nt - rivervalley817 11:21:36 09/13/20 (6)
- A few more states.... - ghost of olddude55 12:09:30 09/13/20 (5)
- That's disenfranchisement - PabloP 19:42:49 09/13/20 (1)
- RE: That's disenfranchisement - rivervalley817 21:27:57 09/13/20 (0)
- RE: A few more states.... - rivervalley817 12:26:19 09/13/20 (2)
- Eight more states needed. - ghost of olddude55 12:40:58 09/13/20 (1)
- RE: Eight more states needed. - rivervalley817 17:26:36 09/13/20 (0)
- My third party votes weren't protests. - ghost of olddude55 10:41:21 09/13/20 (29)
- RE: My third party votes weren't protests. - E-Stat 14:18:48 09/13/20 (28)
- I wasn't in favor of the ACA. - ghost of olddude55 15:47:52 09/13/20 (27)
- RE: I wasn't in favor of the ACA. - E-Stat 15:55:30 09/13/20 (26)
- Every penny I paid in union dues was worth it and more. - ghost of olddude55 16:07:26 09/13/20 (25)
- Unions basically - RGA 21:17:14 09/13/20 (1)
- RE: Unions basically - rivervalley817 21:34:37 09/13/20 (0)
- RE: Every penny I paid in union dues was worth it and more. - E-Stat 17:08:19 09/13/20 (22)
- RE: Every penny I paid in union dues was worth it and more. - RGA 20:06:31 09/13/20 (15)
- RE: Every penny I paid in union dues was worth it and more. - E-Stat 21:33:01 09/13/20 (13)
- Rich Guys Like You - Inmate51 11:10:46 09/14/20 (3)
- RE: Rich Guys Like You - RGA 22:52:57 09/14/20 (0)
- Well - E-Stat 12:35:30 09/14/20 (1)
- McDouble - Inmate51 19:55:11 09/14/20 (0)
- RE: Every penny I paid in union dues was worth it and more. - RGA 23:04:44 09/13/20 (8)
- RE: Every penny I paid in union dues was worth it and more. - E-Stat 05:43:19 09/14/20 (7)
- RE: Every penny I paid in union dues was worth it and more. - RGA 16:06:32 09/14/20 (6)
- You seem to forget... - E-Stat 16:20:50 09/14/20 (5)
- RE: You seem to forget... - RGA 19:03:48 09/14/20 (4)
- What a pathetic view you have of society -nt - E-Stat 15:48:16 09/15/20 (3)
- RE: What a pathetic view you have of society -nt - RGA 03:25:22 09/17/20 (2)
- After? - E-Stat 06:09:04 09/17/20 (1)
- RE: After? - RGA 03:15:41 10/5/20 (0)
- RE: Every penny I paid in union dues was worth it and more. - rivervalley817 20:52:17 09/13/20 (0)
- RE: Every penny I paid in union dues was worth it and more. - rivervalley817 17:32:47 09/13/20 (5)
- Try again - E-Stat 18:12:36 09/13/20 (4)
- RE: Try again - rivervalley817 20:44:23 09/13/20 (3)
- Are you lucid? -nt - E-Stat 21:33:25 09/13/20 (2)
- RE: Are you lucid? -nt - rivervalley817 21:53:09 09/13/20 (1)
- Let us know - E-Stat 05:35:13 09/14/20 (0)
- RE: What the hell is the point of a vote that "doesn't count"? - rivervalley817 10:13:50 09/13/20 (2)
- Read my edit/addition to my post above. What 3rd party candidate was appointed to whose cabinet? nt - Rick W 10:23:40 09/13/20 (1)
- RE: Read my edit/addition to my post above. What 3rd party candidate was appointed to whose cabinet? nt - rivervalley817 11:15:32 09/13/20 (0)
- RE: In the US, third parties shoot for the moon. - rivervalley817 09:57:00 09/13/20 (0)