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General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories. |
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General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories. |
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In Reply to: Audio-Research LS3 pre-amp Reviews. Help! posted by waj4all on October 26, 2010 at 19:27:49:
PHOTO: My chaotic office system in 2005 when trying vintage tuners- McIntosh MR67 (1965) and MR77 (1974), Revox B160 (1988). CDP is Cambridge Audio 640C and speakers were Infinity Primus 360's. The grey box on the upper left is a Peavey VMP2 tube microphone preamp (6-12AX7, 2-12AT7). 11 amp Oneac isolation transformer power conditioner. By the way, the Revox B160 ($1,100 in 1988!) is a great tuner that cost only $270 in 2005- "under the radar" gear in my view. Two friends liked the Revox more than the MR77.
waj4all,
I understand your quandry as to the LS3 qualities. Ever since purchasing an Audio Research LS3 (1996) (used with and Audio Research D130 (solid state, 130W, 1996) in 2004, it's been interesting to see such a range of opinions of the LS3- from ecstatic to disappointed to even angry! And a very odd feature of this is the number of people who changed to something amazingly different- to Conrad-Johnson for example.
One aspect that I think may account for some of the variation in opinion is that the LS3 is one of the most cold-blooded preamps. I eventually came to feel that it didn't sound it's best until it had been on at least 5 hours. The D130 is even moreso and for the first time in my life, I started leaving a system on all the time. Until that time, I'd only used all-tube ARC stuff- SP8 1985, D115 1985, SP10 1987 and these were working just fine after 45 minutes. So, I believe that a lot of people buying used LS3's have auditioned these cold or bought without hearing it and being shocked at the hard, tight sound out of the box. IT was just before I bought the LS3 and D130 that I discovered how sympathetically the Audioquest King Cobra interconnect worked with ARC stuff and I found people selling these cheaply -1M were $225 and I bought 5 pair for between $90 and $120 with only 10 or 20 hours. They were impatient and didn't wait for the cables to develop- which I think takes about 60-80 hours. Out of the box they sound terrible- harsh and un-dynamic.
But, the aspect of the LS3 that I think is the real root of the questions as to the LS3 sonic quality is that it is just amazingly neutral especially in Direct Mode. The end result of this is that the LS3 is devastatingly revealing of the quality of the sources. I used the LS3 with a Cambridge Audio 640C v.2 and it was a cold digital system, but with a 1965 McIntosh MR67 tube tuner, it was a deep, lush, palpably 3D experience with a soundstage wider than the speakers and 300' deep.
So, the problem then becomes the quality of the sources and from my view, it seems plausible that those who object to the coldness are either not hearing it fully warmed up and probably moreso- have sources- esp. digital- that are somewhat sterile and the easy solution is to run for a C-J or something tubesque to warm things up.
As for comparison with the SP8 and SP10, besides of course the phono stage included in those two, these are for me too of the best all-tube gear Audio Research ever made (also M100 and D250 servo amplifiers): slightly smooth, articulate, dynamic, natural timbres, transparent, amazing resolution and imaging. The SP10 is in an A+ league by itself for phono , with the line stage only a bit nicer than the SP8. The SP8 though is much more forgiving than either the SP10 or LS3 for sources- there is enough SP8 personality to make a lot gear- and recordings be acceptable.
I always buy for repetoire and performance, so I have terrible Vanguard budget LP reissues and such of Cortot and the SP10 makes these sound like someone banging on a cigar box banjo in another room whereas the SP10 and moreso the SP8 they are delightfully romantic glimpses of 1938 and I can listen for hours.
In summary, the LS3 is fantastically good value- IF the sources and software are good and it's fully warmed up- on 5 hours or more, but is any single component is hard or undynamic, or veiled or tizzy, so will the sound be. By contrast an SP8 will make friends with a much larger range of components and it's delicate, naturalness and imaging can bring joy from budget transfers of Edison wax cylinders- for some reason it has you listen through and ignore the gear to hear music!
As to magazine reviews, I don't have any at hand or recommendations, but Stereophile and many others must have reviewed it. I bought the LS3 on the basis of having heard it new in the boutique- with a $6,000 Oracle turntable running through an Audio Research PH3SE and VT130SE ($7,500) to Vandersteen 4's. And yes, "Jazz at the Pawnshop" - one of the almost universal imaging show-off LP's at the time- was just stunning. I don;t think I would've enjoyed the LS3 as much- or at all- with my $2.99 Vanguard Cortot!
All in all, though if I had to have only one Audio Research preamp, it would be an SP8 with carefully chosen NOS gain tubes- Siemens or Amperex 12AX7's. By the way, another big advantage of the SP8 is it's 12AX7 basis instead of the difficult and now very expensive 6DJ8 family of tubes in the SP10. I retubed the SP10 about 4-5 months ago with 6-Amperex and Valvo 7308's and 6-Tungsram red label E88CC (6922) I'd bought years ago and calculated that if I bought these same tubes today, the cost would be in the neighbourhood of $1,000. By the way, the tubes in the SP10 at the point were from 1991- 19 years, so the SP10 is not in any way a "tube eater" with the right choices. The SP8 has all it's original tubes from 1985.
I'd say overall, by all means sort out various reviews, but in the main, try the LS3 with a variety of sources and speakers- perhaps a sympathetic dealer would let you plug into a store system- let it warm up for 5 hours and then write your own review,..
Cheers,
Bambi B
[ARC: SP8, SP10, LS3, D115, D130]
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Follow Ups
- Audio Research LS3 : Devastatingly neutral, Audio Research SP8: A forgiving friend, Audio Research SP10: Phono Nirvana - Bambi B 10/28/1006:13:26 10/28/10 (0)
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