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Re: Strawman? let's start over and see who did that

An excerpt from Biggest lie#2

Tubes are great for high-powered RF transmitters and microwave ovens but not, at the turn of the century, for amplifiers, preamps, or (good grief!) digital components like CD and DVD players. What’s wrong with tubes? Nothing, really. There’s nothing wrong with gold teeth, either, even for upper incisors (that Mideastern grin); it’s just that modern dentistry offers more attractive options. Whatever vacuum tubes can do in a piece of audio equipment, solid-state devices can do better, at lower cost, with greater reliability.
Even the world’s best-designed tube amplifier will have higher distortion than an equally well-designed transistor
amplifier and will almost certainly need more servicing (tube replacements, rebiasing, etc.)

You said

"I brought that up with him in 1990 at the summer CES. He really didn't have anything to say to me though, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary"

then you said, my reply in italics

ergo: tubes don't make nearly the odd-ordered harmonic content that transistors do (thus the 'smoothness' of tubes vs. the 'harshness' of transistors). This fact is very well known and its implication is that tubes are better for audio than transistors because they follow the rules that we humans use to hear by better.

This simply not the case, there is abundance of evidence at Soundstage and Stereophile.

Another clue to the same is guitar amps. All the good ones are tube. There are no good transistor guitar amps. This is due to the overdrive character of tubes; IOW even in overdrive the odd-ordered harmonic content is less than that of transistors.

I cannot speak for guiter amps, but the latter part about odd-ordered harmonic is simply not so.

Another clue: measure the clipping character of a transistor amplifier and compare to that of a tube amp. You will see the odd-ordered harmincs show up immediately.

Tubes just do audio better, plain and simple.

Simply not the case...

Or do have anything published recently that shows with objective evidences that audio application transistors have consistently higher odd-harmonics?

Here is tube amplifier you will recognise, and it 3 and 5th harmonics are notably larger than the 2nd and 4th respectively.

Then

"beyond the 7th and 9th are the ones to which I refer- the ones that the ear uses as loudness cues! IOW what *I* was talking about- not the starwman that you have created. "

Still a red herring, there are examples of SS that show lower high order distortion than the best tubes amplifiers. For examples see my response to morricab.


then

"General Electric did point out that they only need to exist in vanishingly small amounts. Human hearing uses higher odd-ordered harmonics as the means to determine how loud a sound is."

I have no reason to dispute this, even though I have yet to see the paper. however

"have already pointed to the tests you can perform easily at homw with a 'scope, an audio oscillator and the amps themselves. If you do these tests yourself this issue will become abundantly clear"

is an exercise in futility as I have already presented data in this thread that shows a cost-effective SS amplfiier that has lower high order harmonics than some of the best measuring tubes amplifiers (i.e. the Lamm) out there, the SS also have much lower overall distortion. I have also presented data of a well-regarded tube amplifier with more odd order harmonics than many SS amplifiers. In other words, the distortion spectrum is circuit dependent, however SS circuits generally have much lower distortion than their tube cousins.

Your response (my original comments in italics)

"In other words, the distortion spectrum is circuit dependent, however SS circuits generally have much lower distortion than their tube cousins."

This has entirely to do with topology! For example, getting rid of the output transformer (and then running the same amount of the dreaded negative feedback that transistor amps generally have) results in an amplifier with distortion specs every bit as low as transistor amps. Just take a look at the specs from the Futterman amps that Futterman was selling in the early 60s. I happen to have Stereo Guide from back then and the THD measured is .05% at full power.

If you are to include only tube amps with output transformers I will agree that transistor amps are lower THD. But that does not mean that they will be more listenable as they will still have the distortions that human ears object to.

Then I reply with (italics my response)

"This has entirely to do with topology!"

So what is your point? If it has to do with topology where does it leave your original point? At any rate, The OTLs that currently available have much higher distortion than 0.05 THD at full power.

"If you are to include only tube amps with output transformers I will agree that transistor amps are lower THD. But that does not mean that they will be more listenable as they will still have the distortions that human ears object to. "

> > Please I will appreciate if we stick to verifiable objective > > facts, after all you original talked of prepoderance of evidence. > > Distortion afterall is veriable objective attribute.

Now you respond with "strawmen, IOW more than one.

In order to proceed we would at least have to stay on subject... "

Yet you have not provide any concrete information to support your original comments about prepoderance of evidence to counter Aczel points. Rather you have modified your original opinion thrice, first to exclude low order odd harmonics, second to exclude tube amplfiers with output transformers. third on to bad mouth high NFB, you have introduced red herrings and strawmen in lieu of actual evidence to support your original comments that there is a prepoderance of information that contradicts Biggest lie#2.

Strawmen anyone!

Music making the painting, recording it the photograph


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