In Reply to: March 12, 2009 update to "The List" posted by georgelouis on March 13, 2009 at 00:00:21:
HI George,
I know you do not intend to re-start the age old debate about the audibility of absolute phase. But such a discussion is inevitable.
Here is my situation. My Audio Research SP-11 MkII preamp has a front panel switch that inverts both channels (changes absolute phase). The preamp is located within easy arms reach from my listening position. I can change phase without even moving my head. It's ideal for exploring the audible changes, if any, of changing absolute phase with the flip of a switch. Few preamps have this feature. Does yours? You have no equipment profile so I can't tell.
For others reading this, are you convinced that I do know the difference between absolute and relative phase? Do I have to spend any words on this? Good, I thought I would not have to. I am writing about ABSOLUTE PHASE. Is this clear?
My original mind set was that absolute phase would, without question, be audible. I started this exploration about 1985. In 1990, when the subject was hot and I acquired my SP-11 with its phase switch, I got really serious. Hah, no more changing speaker cables which was a PITA and tended to invalidate the subjective results because of the time lag involved with switching cables.
I have over 4000 records and over 500 CD's. Over the years I have phase tested every one by ear. I used to do it routinely. It's very easy to do with my set up. For the past few years, I no longer bother.
I have to say that I have never, not once, heard a difference between the two different phase states. I am forced to the conclusion that absolute phase differences ARE NOT AUDIBLE, at least not by me.
Yet, folks with ears and judgment that I respect claim the opposite. Is the final answer a matter of who is making the observation? Is this a sensitivity that some folks have and others don’t? Is it a genetic skill? I think this may be the case. Or, it may be imagination but I think this is unlikely.
J. Gordon Holt, who I personally know and with whom I have shared listening sessions, and has some of the world’s great ears, wrote on this subject in Stereophile. He was puzzled that he could not hear differences. Holt was not the type of person who could let a mystery remain unresolved. He had the tenacity of a bulldog and the auditioning skills of a scientist. Yet, he was forced to conclude that the audibility of absolute phase was personal phenomenon, a sensitivity some have and others don’t. He also concluded that this skill was not related to overall hearing ability. It is a highly specialized skill isolated from other skills.
I wonder how many other very controversial audio subjects are similar. There is no reason to assume that we all hear the same way.
I stand with him on this. I can't take my exploration any further. This is more than a statistical conclusion. 100% is definitive. Perhaps you can hear the difference. I can't. The subject is closed for me.
Sparky
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Follow Ups
- Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - Karma16 03/15/0905:22:30 03/15/09 (32)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - Dave Pogue 14:46:14 03/15/09 (10)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - Karma16 15:57:02 03/15/09 (8)
- Sorry, Sparky. - Dave Pogue 16:03:49 03/15/09 (7)
- Maybe or Just Lucky - Karma16 16:21:29 03/15/09 (6)
- RE: Maybe or Just Lucky - benie 16:44:36 03/15/09 (2)
- RE: Maybe or Just Lucky - Karma16 17:22:40 03/15/09 (1)
- RE: Maybe or Just Lucky - benie 19:06:44 03/15/09 (0)
- As a matter of fact, yes. - Dave Pogue 16:31:19 03/15/09 (2)
- RE: As a matter of fact, yes. - Karma16 17:14:07 03/15/09 (1)
- RE: As a matter of fact, yes. - Dave Pogue 17:34:27 03/15/09 (0)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - georgelouis 15:27:45 03/15/09 (0)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - georgelouis 13:13:20 03/15/09 (8)
- Cricket Polarity Tester - Tony Lauck 14:37:29 03/15/09 (7)
- RE: Cricket Polarity Tester - georgelouis 15:22:13 03/15/09 (6)
- RE: Cricket Polarity Tester - Tony Lauck 19:07:16 03/15/09 (5)
- RE: Cricket Polarity Tester - georgelouis 20:12:20 03/15/09 (4)
- Tony is right - unclestu52 00:55:28 03/19/09 (1)
- RE: Tony is right - georgelouis 11:27:19 03/19/09 (0)
- That all true believers break their eggs at the convenient end. - Tony Lauck 08:02:36 03/16/09 (1)
- RE: That all true believers break their eggs at the convenient end. - georgelouis 12:07:13 03/16/09 (0)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - Tony Lauck 10:12:42 03/15/09 (10)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - Karma16 10:56:40 03/15/09 (9)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - Tony Lauck 11:56:42 03/15/09 (2)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - Karma16 15:35:09 03/15/09 (1)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - Tony Lauck 18:47:45 03/15/09 (0)
- Overreaction? - mls-stl 11:18:44 03/15/09 (5)
- RE: Overreaction? - Karma16 11:35:47 03/15/09 (4)
- RE: Overreaction? - mls-stl 14:49:29 03/15/09 (3)
- RE: Overreaction? - Karma16 15:30:35 03/15/09 (2)
- Guess we'll have to disagree then - mls-stl 16:22:04 03/15/09 (1)
- RE: Guess we'll have to disagree then - Karma16 16:34:31 03/15/09 (0)
- RE: Absolute Phase; I Can't Hear It - suretyguy 09:48:35 03/15/09 (0)