Re: Finally some rational arguments - Todd Krieger

Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - Audio resolution - kerr 07:16:16 06/20/06 (223)

And the winner of the most posts to this thread is... - E-Stat 17:20:29 06/21/06 (2)

A little premature? - Dave Kingsland 06:07:58 06/22/06 (0)

Winner or Whiner (King of, that is)... - mkuller 19:26:45 06/21/06 (0)

Audio resolution is the ability to retain as much of the original performance as possible with current equipment. - Teresa 17:08:27 06/20/06 (46)

Based on your definition, your anwers are so wrong that I am stunned! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:55:34 06/22/06 (8)

low resolution CD cannot create the illusion of live music as done in the demo from 1960's - Teresa 01:59:09 06/25/06 (0)

You don't get out or listen much do you? - Teresa 18:46:09 06/22/06 (3)

Your proof is nonsense (a few audiophile label recordings & your subjective opinions = cassettes sound better than CD's? - Richard BassNut Greene 07:35:56 06/24/06 (2)

Also did the try the following comparisons between LP, CD, SACD and DVD-Audio I gave you? - Teresa 17:21:42 06/24/06 (0)

Disconnect from reality? I have purchased and sold over 1000 CDs - Teresa 17:07:47 06/24/06 (0)

Based on your illusion principle, live recordings on cassette could pass as high rez. (nt) - soulfood 12:52:27 06/22/06 (2)

It's best to use 2 Track 15ips Analog for live recordings. I do not recommend using ANY consomer format for Masters. NT - Teresa 17:16:06 06/24/06 (1)

That's a whole different topic. - soulfood 09:28:25 06/25/06 (0)

Re: Audio resolution is the ability to retain as much of the original performance as possible with current equipment. - Tom Dawson 20:15:27 06/21/06 (0)

Nice job - realistic as opposed to the theoritical below...(nt) - mkuller 13:20:56 06/21/06 (1)

Why am I not surprised... (nt) - hexenboden 16:47:36 06/21/06 (0)

Don't Totally Agree Either.... - Todd Krieger 12:10:59 06/21/06 (1)

Re: Don't Totally Agree Either.... - soulfood 14:10:43 06/21/06 (0)

Respectfully disagree. - Al Sekela 10:10:10 06/21/06 (6)

Al, send me an email. (nt) - mkuller 11:40:25 06/21/06 (1)

OK, done (nt) - Al Sekela 16:03:40 06/22/06 (0)

Most SACDs, high resolution DVD-Audio or LPs DO NOT suffer from strident "massed strings" - Teresa 10:30:43 06/21/06 (3)

Perhaps not, but one instance of Redbook CD playback that sounds good - Al Sekela 10:41:42 06/21/06 (2)

So any PCM at 24 Bit 48kHz or lower including CD is more to susceptible RF noise than higher resolution PCM? - Teresa 11:03:30 06/21/06 (1)

Don't know, could be. My point is that Redbook CD can be - Al Sekela 16:00:53 06/22/06 (0)

Where did this ranking come from? - Fisherdude 21:05:52 06/20/06 (6)

Yes from 30 years of careful listening. (nt) - Teresa 21:41:19 06/20/06 (3)

That's 30 years of listening filtered through your own perceptions - Fisherdude 06:00:22 06/21/06 (2)

I never claimed they were anyone's perceptions except my own. - Teresa 10:06:57 06/21/06 (0)

Authoritative is not necessarily deceptive. (nt) - soulfood 07:36:48 06/21/06 (0)

LOL! Her source is wishful thinking and a vivid imagination...(nt) - hexenboden 21:13:39 06/20/06 (1)

These are how all the formats perform, nothing wishful about it. - Teresa 21:47:15 06/20/06 (0)

Nice analysis (nt) - Joe Appierto 20:44:00 06/20/06 (10)

Thanks Joe (;-) nt - Teresa 21:50:35 06/20/06 (0)

You call this an analysis? - hexenboden 20:55:41 06/20/06 (8)

If you give me a week I will post recordings that totally prove every ranking. - Teresa 21:49:43 06/20/06 (7)

If you need a week - hexenboden 10:48:47 06/21/06 (1)

I need a week to do all the typing for a hundred or so recordings and what versions were used. - Teresa 11:09:30 06/21/06 (0)

Oh dear! Teresa - I disagree with the order of your list but...... - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 10:35:57 06/21/06 (1)

Chris have you heard AIX's new DVD-Audio "BRAND NEW OPRY"? It's one of the best sounding DVD-Audio's I have - Teresa 11:22:36 06/21/06 (0)

Don't waste your time... - mkuller 09:48:59 06/21/06 (1)

The great "critic" strikes again - hexenboden 10:47:09 06/21/06 (0)

No, that won't prove anything - Fisherdude 06:03:17 06/21/06 (0)

Re: Audio resolution is the ability to retain as much of the original performance as possible with current equipment. - hahax@verizon.net 20:21:46 06/20/06 (0)

Zowie!!!! - kerr 19:14:04 06/20/06 (5)

Correct Resolution is not an absolute but degrees as nothing so far equals Live Music - Teresa 19:36:27 06/20/06 (4)

Beveled edges have little to do with room reflections (nt) - hexenboden 20:41:50 06/20/06 (3)

Wrong "diffraction or boundary reflection occurs when sound of the Drivers bounces off the front on the cabinet... - Teresa 21:58:08 06/20/06 (2)

Yet another thing you understand nothing about (nt) - hexenboden 14:07:37 06/21/06 (1)

Quote was directly from Infinity who made my speakers, so now you are insulting them as well? - Teresa 15:07:08 06/21/06 (1)

Thanks to all - kerr 16:49:56 06/20/06 (95)

In perceptual terms, I think it's ONLY personal... - real_jj 17:32:00 06/20/06 (94)

Ah, jj! - kerr 19:04:14 06/20/06 (93)

Yes, that's it. - real_jj 10:37:25 06/21/06 (1)

Re: Yes, that's it. - kerr 12:49:16 06/21/06 (0)

Re: Ah, jj! - Christine Tham 20:34:44 06/20/06 (90)

Um, Christine, you're dead wrong on that. - real_jj 10:35:18 06/21/06 (4)

Nope - Christine Tham 17:34:21 06/21/06 (3)

Excuse me, but it's very rude of you to misteach this. - real_jj 19:17:43 06/21/06 (2)

*You* are accusing *me* of being rude??? - Christine Tham 20:35:26 06/21/06 (1)

Yes, I am. - real_jj 22:03:09 06/21/06 (0)

Re: Ah, jj! - morricab 01:43:27 06/21/06 (53)

Um, no. - real_jj 10:41:04 06/21/06 (52)

Re: Um, no. - morricab 02:28:03 06/22/06 (3)

Well, the "how' is not hard to understand. - real_jj 12:14:03 06/22/06 (2)

Re: Well, the "how' is not hard to understand. - morricab 06:04:01 06/23/06 (1)

Hm, not sure where to start... - real_jj 10:56:12 06/23/06 (0)

Not true - Christine Tham 17:40:04 06/21/06 (42)

Instantaneous freq of FM signal vs Fourier spectrum - andy_c 06:55:38 06/24/06 (0)

Re: Not true - Todd Krieger 21:39:39 06/21/06 (17)

Again, you fail to realize... - real_jj 22:18:36 06/21/06 (16)

I Don't Think That's the Case..... - Todd Krieger 23:09:51 06/21/06 (15)

whatever you think of wikipedia - tunenut 10:27:16 06/22/06 (4)

I Still Don't Think It's the Case..... - Todd Krieger 13:40:46 06/22/06 (2)

did you read the link? - tunenut 14:02:59 06/22/06 (1)

Did you see where he denied that the sinc function can be applied in frequency? - real_jj 14:17:07 06/22/06 (0)

link - tunenut 10:31:10 06/22/06 (0)

No, Todd, the "period" that the sum repeats at can be "infinity". - real_jj 10:21:23 06/22/06 (9)

Re: No, Todd, the "period" that the sum repeats at can be "infinity". - Todd Krieger 13:54:18 06/22/06 (8)

Stop denying the obvious, Todd. Go study the delta function. GO DO THE WORK! - real_jj 14:13:12 06/22/06 (7)

Context..... - Todd Krieger 15:32:22 06/22/06 (6)

You say: Granted for general Fourier analysis.... - real_jj 15:51:40 06/22/06 (5)

Re: You say: Granted for general Fourier analysis.... - Todd Krieger 16:46:58 06/22/06 (3)

No, Todd, that's not what I think they would say... - real_jj 16:54:46 06/22/06 (2)

Do a Google Search.... - Todd Krieger 17:04:08 06/22/06 (1)

Do a google search on "delta function", Todd... - real_jj 17:15:55 06/22/06 (0)

Oh, and ... - real_jj 15:54:44 06/22/06 (0)

Totally, absolutely wrong, Christine! - real_jj 19:58:54 06/21/06 (8)

Again, a little less arrogance would perhaps be advisable - Christine Tham 20:18:42 06/21/06 (7)

Let's see, is it arrogant to announce completely incorrect things in public? - real_jj 22:03:59 06/21/06 (6)

OK, this is my final post - Christine Tham 03:22:08 06/22/06 (5)

Re: OK, this is my final post - Dave Kingsland 10:16:42 06/22/06 (3)

Re: OK, this is my final post - Christine Tham 17:32:19 06/22/06 (1)

Tsk. You've embarrassed yourself, now you add insult to injury - real_jj 17:52:46 06/22/06 (0)

Exactly. - real_jj 10:45:20 06/22/06 (0)

You've taken things completely out of context. - real_jj 10:09:48 06/22/06 (0)

strange statement - tunenut 19:21:21 06/21/06 (13)

You'll find sidebands at the modulation spectrum/frequencies... - real_jj 20:01:38 06/21/06 (12)

This is just absolutely irrelevant - Christine Tham 20:43:33 06/21/06 (11)

Yes, I certainly have done Fourier analysis of a chirp. - real_jj 22:04:58 06/21/06 (0)

why don't you just do a frequency analysis? - tunenut 20:54:24 06/21/06 (9)

What makes you think I haven't? - Christine Tham 21:05:58 06/21/06 (8)

Re: What makes you think I haven't? - andy_c 09:12:01 06/24/06 (0)

questions - tunenut 08:52:06 06/22/06 (5)

Re: questions - Christine Tham 17:46:05 06/22/06 (4)

I was with you up to the last sentence - tunenut 18:07:43 06/22/06 (2)

Re: I was with you up to the last sentence - Christine Tham 18:14:17 06/22/06 (1)

And, of course, as the window gets shorter, - real_jj 21:10:44 06/22/06 (0)

Sigh. - real_jj 17:54:04 06/22/06 (0)

And, then, you assert a problem with sampling. - real_jj 22:05:54 06/21/06 (0)

Here We Go Again..... - Todd Krieger 11:01:58 06/21/06 (4)

Re: Here We Go Again..... - andy_c 19:38:48 06/23/06 (0)

FYI..... - Todd Krieger 11:43:07 06/21/06 (1)

That's good, Todd, that's part of what happens... - real_jj 13:06:47 06/21/06 (0)

I see you're still misteaching. GET LOST - real_jj 11:31:30 06/21/06 (0)

Finally some rational arguments - hexenboden 21:04:16 06/20/06 (30)

Re: Finally some rational arguments - Christine Tham 22:11:00 06/20/06 (29)

Re: Finally some rational arguments - Todd Krieger 06/21/0612:17:17 06/21/06 (11)

Is that so? - real_jj 13:07:42 06/21/06 (10)

Re: Is that so? - Todd Krieger 13:42:08 06/21/06 (9)

"flawed" means wrong. The sampling theorem is valid. Period. For anything. - real_jj 14:02:16 06/21/06 (8)

Won't Get Caught Up On the Semantics, But..... - Todd Krieger 20:56:21 06/21/06 (1)

Well, actually, it's exactly possible. - real_jj 22:23:50 06/21/06 (0)

Practical implementations do not meet the conditions for the theorem to hold - Christine Tham 19:07:59 06/21/06 (5)

No, Christine, it is not. - real_jj 19:13:56 06/21/06 (4)

Re: No, Christine, it is not. - Christine Tham 19:26:45 06/21/06 (3)

No, Christine, that is not how it works... - real_jj 19:53:50 06/21/06 (2)

Your are falling into a hole ... - Christine Tham 20:10:17 06/21/06 (1)

Actually, my post is conclusive... - real_jj 22:08:19 06/21/06 (0)

"vinyl is my least preferred music format" - hexenboden 11:09:17 06/21/06 (3)

Re: "vinyl is my least preferred music format" - Christine Tham 18:15:29 06/21/06 (1)

The irony of it all... - real_jj 13:13:42 06/21/06 (1)

That makes sense - hexenboden 14:08:59 06/21/06 (0)

Your comments on the Shannon theorem - real_jj 10:48:11 06/21/06 (4)

Re: Your comments on the Shannon theorem - Christine Tham 17:44:42 06/21/06 (3)

Actually, no, it's not. - real_jj 22:11:33 06/21/06 (2)

Re: Actually, no, it's not. - Christine Tham 03:29:53 06/22/06 (1)

One "inconclusive" study and a dozen ones with clear results is not "inconclusive" - real_jj 10:15:11 06/22/06 (0)

Re: Finally some rational arguments - Dave Kingsland 06:08:41 06/21/06 (4)

Re: Finally some rational arguments - Christine Tham 17:54:12 06/21/06 (3)

Re: Finally some rational arguments - Dave Kingsland 10:38:14 06/22/06 (2)

Re: Finally some rational arguments - Christine Tham 17:56:31 06/22/06 (1)

"where the error is exponentially large"??? - real_jj 21:13:04 06/22/06 (0)

Re: Finally some rational arguments - kerr 05:20:37 06/21/06 (2)

I can't answer for Christine but for me Vinyl has the highest resolution but I hate it because it is a PITA to care for. - Teresa 10:19:46 06/21/06 (1)

Heh, heh - kerr 12:53:44 06/21/06 (0)

Forget resolution, just enjoy the music - Christine Tham 16:42:24 06/20/06 (1)

Excellent! - kerr 16:47:04 06/20/06 (0)

"Just the facts, ma'am." - Al Sekela 13:00:42 06/20/06 (0)

Re: Audio resolution - hexenboden 12:06:03 06/20/06 (47)

WRONG see link - Teresa 17:12:39 06/20/06 (12)

Re: WRONG see link - real_jj 17:28:11 06/20/06 (11)

So you're saying cassettes don't have higher resolution than cd's? - powermatic 15:21:32 06/22/06 (0)

Good job - hexenboden 20:05:08 06/20/06 (0)

As far as ease of playing and acceptable resolution I prefer HDCD, which is 7th in order of resolution - Teresa 17:46:47 06/20/06 (8)

Did you write a book about real estate? - hexenboden 21:15:31 06/20/06 (7)

No that wasn't me, though I do some published poetry (nt) - Teresa 22:00:40 06/20/06 (6)

Please share some - hexenboden 11:10:43 06/21/06 (5)

OK here's one from 1971 - Teresa 15:13:55 06/21/06 (1)

Thank you for sharing that (nt) - hexenboden 16:49:04 06/21/06 (0)

here is one - tunenut 13:51:25 06/21/06 (2)

Is this 100% of what you can do? (nt) - hexenboden 14:11:48 06/21/06 (1)

yes (NT) - tunenut 14:31:49 06/21/06 (0)

How do you figure? - mkuller 14:15:40 06/20/06 (9)

infinity is like Santa Claus - tunenut 18:00:36 06/20/06 (0)

Re: Nice try... - $orabji! 17:47:29 06/20/06 (0)

Same old fallacy, written again... - real_jj 17:29:26 06/20/06 (3)

So which one has the higher sampling rate and bandwidth? (nt) - mkuller 09:50:00 06/21/06 (1)

Pick some relevant measure, and we'll discuss it, Mike. - real_jj 10:50:06 06/21/06 (1)

Yes, but he is a "Critic" - hexenboden 19:31:10 06/20/06 (0)

Re: How do you figure? - theaudiohobby 16:05:42 06/20/06 (1)

Finally a learned man - hexenboden 16:18:06 06/20/06 (0)

It is not infinite - hexenboden 14:23:43 06/20/06 (0)

More pro-digital propaganda Tell us all about how great MP3,XM and Redbook 'sound'.. - thoriated 12:37:22 06/20/06 (23)

Sorry, that's a heck of a load of straw men in one title there. - real_jj 17:26:16 06/20/06 (2)

Re: Sorry, that's a heck of a load of straw men in one title there. - morricab 02:06:08 06/21/06 (1)

You don't have to calculate a sampling rate. - real_jj 10:50:38 06/21/06 (0)

I don't understand your question - hexenboden 14:24:49 06/20/06 (19)

Really? PRO-DIGITAL in the face of reality propaganda is your specialty! DUH! (nt) - Teresa 17:19:00 06/20/06 (0)

C'mon, really. Who's paying you to indiscriminately flack for digital? - thoriated 15:09:39 06/20/06 (17)

Re: C'mon, really. Who's paying you to indiscriminately flack for digital? - Dave Kingsland 16:45:21 06/20/06 (15)

Re: C'mon, really. Who's paying you to indiscriminately flack for digital? - thoriated 15:22:02 06/21/06 (0)

Re: C'mon, really. Who's paying you to indiscriminately flack for digital? - hexenboden 17:05:06 06/20/06 (13)

Re: C'mon, really. Who's paying you to indiscriminately flack for digital? - Dave Kingsland 18:10:58 06/20/06 (3)

Theoretical resolution... - mkuller 14:35:45 06/21/06 (1)

I told you you needed to upgrade your system...(nt) - hexenboden 10:28:20 06/22/06 (0)

Interesting and illuminating - hexenboden 19:34:22 06/20/06 (0)

You would need frequencies to about 50kHz. A cartridge that is flat to 25kHz will only be down about 5-10dB at 50kHz - Teresa 17:23:37 06/20/06 (8)

To the sensible people out there (eg. not T.): about dynamic range - hexenboden 19:40:37 06/20/06 (7)

My best audiophile LP pressings have less noise than many of my high resolution recordings - Teresa 19:51:54 06/20/06 (6)

A new analog medium - hexenboden 20:10:09 06/20/06 (5)

Re: A new analog medium - real_jj 15:55:51 06/22/06 (4)

No in the new Analog medium the laser will read the entire waveform not samples of it. - Teresa 18:23:16 06/22/06 (3)

Ok. At what SNR, I wonder? - real_jj 10:07:44 06/23/06 (2)

Re: Ok. At what SNR, I wonder? - kerr 13:08:45 06/23/06 (1)

I would think a blue laser read Analog disc would be in a caddy like Minidisc is - Teresa 18:25:04 06/23/06 (0)

Oh really? - hexenboden 15:35:48 06/20/06 (0)

HP's definition in TAS... - mkuller 10:46:46 06/20/06 (6)

Nonsense - hexenboden 19:46:52 06/20/06 (3)

Disagree with the message and give the messenger a break. - soulfood 08:31:59 06/21/06 (1)

What is "... the highest level of enjoyment."? - Abel McCain 20:16:12 06/20/06 (1)

That's a perfectly acceptable position - hexenboden 20:30:45 06/20/06 (0)

Re: HP's definition in TAS - thanks great definitions! Must read for everyone - Teresa 17:27:00 06/20/06 (1)

His definitions are eminently clear - E-Stat 17:25:08 06/21/06 (0)

Re: Audio resolution - Awe-d-o-file 10:42:32 06/20/06 (0)

the truth is, there is no good definition - tunenut 10:09:40 06/20/06 (3)

"Detail retrieval". - Abel McCain 19:56:19 06/20/06 (1)

I agree with you - tunenut 21:35:18 06/20/06 (0)

I agree with "...it is the ability to resolve detail". Think of a beaded cymbal. - jeffreybehr 16:27:56 06/20/06 (0)

A technical definition, an "audiophile" definition , and now, a good working definition. Why? (nt) - soulfood 08:35:21 06/20/06 (5)

Why? I think it was Kermit the Frog who said... - kerr 09:16:25 06/20/06 (4)

What has Kermit taught you so far about resolution? (nt) - soulfood 11:34:35 06/20/06 (3)

Nothing. If he had, I wouldn't have to ask you! (nt) - kerr 12:41:10 06/20/06 (2)

Alright, Kermit and "we" from your initial post are unrelated. (nt) - soulfood 13:15:12 06/20/06 (1)

Damn! There goes our "G" rating (nt) - kerr 16:43:52 06/20/06 (0)

Re: Audio resolution - LarryB 07:29:09 06/20/06 (7)

Re: Audio resolution - Bersani 11:15:45 06/20/06 (6)

With your definition - hexenboden 14:27:34 06/20/06 (5)

Bummer - MylesJ 12:05:22 06/21/06 (0)

I didn't define anything, but to clarify... - Bersani 18:06:18 06/20/06 (3)

You seem to constantly miss the point - hexenboden 19:48:18 06/20/06 (2)

Au contraire ;) -nt - Bersani 20:54:42 06/20/06 (1)

Care to expand? (nt) - hexenboden 21:06:18 06/20/06 (0)

Follow Ups

Re: Finally some rational arguments - Todd Krieger 06/21/0612:17:17 06/21/06 (11)

Is that so? - real_jj 13:07:42 06/21/06 (10)

Re: Is that so? - Todd Krieger 13:42:08 06/21/06 (9)

"flawed" means wrong. The sampling theorem is valid. Period. For anything. - real_jj 14:02:16 06/21/06 (8)

Won't Get Caught Up On the Semantics, But..... - Todd Krieger 20:56:21 06/21/06 (1)

Well, actually, it's exactly possible. - real_jj 22:23:50 06/21/06 (0)

Practical implementations do not meet the conditions for the theorem to hold - Christine Tham 19:07:59 06/21/06 (5)

No, Christine, it is not. - real_jj 19:13:56 06/21/06 (4)

Re: No, Christine, it is not. - Christine Tham 19:26:45 06/21/06 (3)

No, Christine, that is not how it works... - real_jj 19:53:50 06/21/06 (2)

Your are falling into a hole ... - Christine Tham 20:10:17 06/21/06 (1)

Actually, my post is conclusive... - real_jj 22:08:19 06/21/06 (0)