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General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories. |
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General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories. |
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In Reply to: Many legitimate points -- except, possibly, your conclusion posted by Feanor on December 28, 2005 at 10:27:16:
The audibility of amplifier differences was assumed.Group dynamics would lead to a "consensus" on the sound quality just like it does in most sighted auditions.
Audio salesmen earn a living obtaining consensus on what a component is "supposed to" sound like!
The so-called test now appears more than ever to have been pure golden ear BS, nonsense, not science!
The listeners merely said whatever they felt like saying about the amplifiers.
There was no proof they could hear differences at all!
The typical high-end golden ear fantasyland -- assume superior hearing, but never prove it to witnesses.
I submit that the listeners could NOT hear differences among the amplifiers with volumes matched and no clipping, as is typical of most blind amplifier comparisons.
With no data presented, I have to assume there was no attempt to prove audible differences at all.
Golden ears should be ashamed of themselves for "falling in love" with this test so quickly and without questions ... after all their posts attacking the test methodology and participant's character ... for EVERY legitimate attempt at an objective blind audition ever presented on this forum.
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - Feanor 04:26:07 12/28/05 (161)
- Here's some MORE TEST INFO - Feanor 10:23:41 12/31/05 (4)
- You should be ashamed of yourself for presenting subjective auditions as "rigorous double-blind tests" - Richard BassNut Greene 09:47:41 01/2/06 (1)
- Same yada-yada , still, your point is well taken - Feanor 06:33:16 01/3/06 (0)
- Re: Here's some MORE TEST INFO - Dave Pogue 04:32:58 01/1/06 (1)
- Saying anything you feel like saying about an amplifier is not a test of anything - Richard BassNut Greene 09:53:56 01/2/06 (0)
- Interesting but... - morricab 10:09:40 12/30/05 (1)
- morricab ... - Feanor 10:31:59 12/31/05 (0)
- It's been two days... It still appears you have presented a subjective audition as "a very rigorous DBT" - Richard BassNut Greene 08:53:06 12/30/05 (3)
- OK, BassNut - Feanor 09:50:18 12/30/05 (1)
- I don't want a private e-mail -- share at least a summary of test results with everyone - Richard BassNut Greene 10:23:00 12/30/05 (0)
- You know what, Richard? - Dave Pogue 09:26:45 12/30/05 (0)
- Maybe you guys should debate less and listen more??? - TomWh 20:28:07 12/29/05 (1)
- Re: Maybe you guys should debate less and listen more??? - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 05:11:08 12/30/05 (0)
- Folks, HELLO! It was all very simple - Feanor 04:47:49 12/29/05 (28)
- Yep- It's pretty strange alright. - GL 22:58:48 12/29/05 (0)
- Funny how something so well meaning and seemingly - musetap 15:56:07 12/29/05 (0)
- "RichardBassNutGreene -- Many thanks...for fulfilling Clark's prediction." Shucks, that was too easy! nt - clarkjohnsen 10:24:29 12/29/05 (1)
- In fact every one of your predictions was wrong (even a stopped clock is right twice a day) - Richard BassNut Greene 10:56:38 12/29/05 (0)
- The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound THE SAME - Richard BassNut Greene 07:22:24 12/29/05 (23)
- "Objective": I don't think it means what you think if means! - Feanor 10:00:53 12/29/05 (0)
- False indeed - Feanor 07:50:33 12/29/05 (21)
- "It's "common knowledge" that DBTs of properly functioning amplifiers reveal no differences amongst them" - Richard BassNut Greene 08:52:12 12/29/05 (14)
- Read up or shut up - Feanor 09:41:58 12/29/05 (13)
- The golden ears often end up using character attacks when trying to refute an objective audiophile - Richard BassNut Greene 10:00:14 12/29/05 (12)
- Re: A pity.. - theaudiohobby 22:16:25 12/29/05 (2)
- This can not possibly be a "DBT debate" because there was no DBT ----- a subjective audition was falsely called a "DBT" - Richard BassNut Greene 07:55:00 12/30/05 (1)
- Re: This can not possibly be a "DBT debate" because there was no DBT ----- a subjective audition was falsely called a "D - theaudiohobby 10:39:38 12/31/05 (0)
- Oh please! Now you're the victim - Feanor 10:04:53 12/29/05 (8)
- I said there was no test in my first post of this thread -- you've danced around that fact ever since - Richard BassNut Greene 10:25:25 12/29/05 (7)
- You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper - Dave Pogue 17:14:15 12/29/05 (6)
- Was any attempt made to prove any listener really had the ability to differentiate among amplifiers? - Richard BassNut Greene 07:34:47 12/30/05 (3)
- The test consumed 19 solid pages of text, charts, and sine wave photos - Dave Pogue 08:09:16 12/30/05 (2)
- I don't care if there were 190 pages -- was ANY attempt made to prove audibility of amplifier differences - Richard BassNut Greene 09:04:59 12/30/05 (1)
- how about 191? - jneutron 10:32:23 12/30/05 (0)
- Thanks again, Dave - Feanor 04:48:27 12/30/05 (1)
- My pleasure - Dave Pogue 05:07:42 12/30/05 (0)
- Richard just got stabbed with his own double-edged sword - kerr 08:03:05 12/29/05 (5)
- kerr, people are going to accuse me of writing YOUR posts just so I have such an easy target to refute - Richard BassNut Greene 09:06:05 12/29/05 (4)
- But don't you see you're shooting down yourself? - kerr 10:06:48 12/29/05 (3)
- Comparing a "test" to similar tests in the past three decades is as objective as one can be - Richard BassNut Greene 08:03:03 12/30/05 (2)
- But your conclusions are anything but! - kerr 09:46:09 12/30/05 (1)
- I questioned the label "DBT" -- and so far it seems that label was misleading - Richard BassNut Greene 10:40:31 12/30/05 (0)
- Don't y'all have something better to do? - lanny 13:02:58 12/28/05 (10)
- Apparently you don’t have a revealing system - Caymus 17:36:15 12/28/05 (7)
- Pardon, your insecurity is showing - lanny 15:20:20 12/29/05 (2)
- Anyone who boasts of incredible hearing powers but offers no proof... - Caymus 17:55:58 12/29/05 (1)
- Who mentioned "incredible hearing powers?" - lanny 14:25:44 12/30/05 (0)
- I am wondering if you tried elevating all your cables off of the floor? - krisgel 04:22:42 12/29/05 (1)
- Give it up, he's not gonna listen. nt - clarkjohnsen 10:27:47 12/29/05 (0)
- The post you're replying to is just another variant of... - andy_c 21:21:27 12/28/05 (1)
- If the shoe fits... nt - lanny 15:21:40 12/29/05 (0)
- Yours is the conventional opinion, apparently ~nt - Feanor 15:59:58 12/28/05 (0)
- Wires and resister leads sound differently -- Jeebus -nt- - Ivor the Engine Driver 13:38:07 12/28/05 (0)
- DBTs have no place in audio. - GL 12:12:49 12/28/05 (2)
- You've hit the nail on the head! - Feanor 15:58:36 12/28/05 (1)
- I enjoyed your posting... - Wellfed 20:35:47 12/28/05 (0)
- Published 30 years ago? I suppose not much has changed in 30 years...N/T - musetap 12:08:45 12/28/05 (0)
- Your fundamental premise is wrong. - jsm 12:00:31 12/28/05 (13)
- A very intelligent method for comparing audio components - Richard BassNut Greene 07:42:13 12/29/05 (1)
- Louder, better, or just different? - Inmate51 13:29:49 01/2/06 (0)
- Re: Your fundamental premise is wrong. - Inmate51 12:59:19 12/28/05 (10)
- It's funny you should doubt me because of my spelling. - jsm 15:04:13 12/28/05 (7)
- Didn't read your entire new post. If you don't know... - Inmate51 16:52:40 12/28/05 (6)
- Dismissing testimony based on spelling is lame. (nt) - Presto 17:00:38 12/28/05 (5)
- bull shut nt - Norm 19:22:40 12/28/05 (0)
- Seconded. (nt) - Rob Thomas 17:19:02 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: Seconded. (nt) - Inmate51 17:44:50 12/28/05 (2)
- Re: Seconded... - Rob Thomas 19:04:18 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: Spelling - Inmate51 19:50:19 12/28/05 (0)
- I never claimed to know how to spell!!! (NT) - jsm 14:40:24 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: I never claimed to know how to spell!!! (NT) - Inmate51 18:32:32 12/28/05 (0)
- Feanor your post was pure "golden ear bait" that worked better than any post I've ever made -- you are a master ! - Richard BassNut Greene 11:42:32 12/28/05 (24)
- Back in '75 - EGeddes 07:40:19 12/29/05 (22)
- DBTs - Inmate51 12:03:13 12/30/05 (2)
- Ok - EGeddes 13:17:58 12/30/05 (1)
- Thank you. nt - Inmate51 19:56:31 01/1/06 (0)
- Differences vs. Preferrences - morricab 10:24:23 12/30/05 (1)
- But actually - EGeddes 10:58:03 12/30/05 (0)
- Back in '75 there were only vinyl records with background noise, compressed dynamics and EQ as our sources - Richard BassNut Greene 09:21:07 12/29/05 (11)
- Good points - EGeddes 09:44:37 12/29/05 (10)
- Modern amplifier differences - morricab 10:38:56 12/30/05 (6)
- Thanks for the note - EGeddes 11:06:52 12/30/05 (5)
- What makes a difference - Inmate51 20:03:29 01/1/06 (0)
- Re: Thanks for the note - morricab 12:45:38 12/30/05 (3)
- Re: Thanks for the note - EGeddes 13:54:11 12/30/05 (2)
- Re: Thanks for the note - morricab 10:27:25 12/31/05 (1)
- Re: Thanks for the note - EGeddes 13:47:20 12/31/05 (0)
- A real test in 1975 could have been useful - Richard BassNut Greene 10:39:24 12/29/05 (2)
- Re: A real test in 1975 could have been useful - EGeddes 11:35:41 12/29/05 (1)
- DBTs are as close to non-biased purely subjective listening as one can get - Richard BassNut Greene 09:14:44 12/30/05 (0)
- Re: Back in '75 - kerr 08:07:10 12/29/05 (4)
- I don't think - EGeddes 09:42:59 12/29/05 (3)
- Sorry - critical omission on my part. - kerr 10:11:35 12/29/05 (2)
- I wish - EGeddes 11:39:51 12/29/05 (1)
- Re: I wish - kerr 12:13:01 12/29/05 (0)
- Well gee shucks, thanks - Feanor 16:01:48 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - Inmate51 10:20:16 12/28/05 (1)
- Well, yes, that's right - Feanor 10:43:39 12/28/05 (0)
- I read your post and I thought about your post -- This sounds like a non-science (nonsense) test to me - Richard BassNut Greene 10:01:05 12/28/05 (9)
- I very much agree with one part of your post specifically... - Presto 17:09:48 12/28/05 (0)
- You're making this too easy for me! - kerr 16:08:04 12/28/05 (2)
- It's always easy ... to be wrong -- THERE....WAS....NO....TEST....AT....ALL --- the original post fooled you and others! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:45:28 12/29/05 (1)
- Is not knowing if you're right or wrong the same as being wrong? - kerr 10:21:17 12/29/05 (0)
- Re: Mastertapes are not substitutes for commercial CDs that audiophiles listen to virtually all of the time" - Rob Doorack 10:37:46 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: Mastertapes are not substitutes for commercial CDs that audiophiles listen to virtually all of the time" - Richard BassNut Greene 11:19:58 12/28/05 (0)
- Many legitimate points -- except, possibly, your conclusion - Feanor 10:27:16 12/28/05 (2)
- I think the test was pure BS -- however that doesn't mean the amplifier you bought was not a great amplifier! - Richard BassNut Greene 12/28/0511:31:38 12/28/05 (0)
- Since the magazine has been defunct for close to 30 years I doubt copyright is an issue.... - JimL 10:51:24 12/28/05 (0)
- euphonic is the point... - docw 09:18:26 12/28/05 (0)
- Amps do sound different. Period. - Godzilla. 08:34:49 12/28/05 (0)
- One explanation for amps sounding different... - KlausR. 08:14:22 12/28/05 (3)
- For marginal designs, perhaps, - Al Sekela 08:42:29 12/28/05 (2)
- Oversimplification: "Class A rated" vs "marginal designs" - Sean 10:49:23 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: Oversimplification: "Class A rated" vs "marginal designs" - Inmate51 08:32:38 12/29/05 (0)
- These results are too, too easy to dismiss! Just look: - clarkjohnsen 07:56:38 12/28/05 (5)
- Point by point, you have delivered a pretty devastating criticism of the DBT, Clark! - Pat D 11:09:26 12/28/05 (2)
- It was *satire* mon! nt - clarkjohnsen 12:26:15 12/28/05 (1)
- Of course, but it's a two-edged sword. - Pat D 13:06:19 12/28/05 (0)
- yeah, see BassNut's response ~nt - Feanor 10:46:58 12/28/05 (0)
- Thanks, Clark - Feanor 08:51:06 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - middleground 07:06:32 12/28/05 (3)
- Well ... - Feanor 08:45:21 12/28/05 (2)
- Yeah, US. No?? Give me a break ~nt - Feanor 16:03:56 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: Well ... - middleground 12:38:24 12/28/05 (0)
- "On the majority of discs the Phase 400 does sound hard and unpleasantly bright" - Dave Pogue 06:40:22 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: "On the majority of discs the Phase 400 does sound hard and unpleasantly bright" - Ozzie 06:52:36 12/28/05 (2)
- Re: "On the majority of discs the Phase 400 does sound hard and unpleasantly bright" - DaveInVA 08:04:31 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: "On the majority of discs the Phase 400 does sound hard and unpleasantly bright" - Dave Pogue 07:21:36 12/28/05 (0)
- Sound Advice's reference speaker for those amp comparisons... - TAFKA Steve 05:46:43 12/28/05 (2)
- But note re. Klipschorns ... - Feanor 06:16:00 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: But note re. Klipschorns ... - Ozzie 06:59:01 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 05:16:20 12/28/05 (6)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - morricab 13:37:06 12/28/05 (1)
- Re: The DBT that proved all amplifiers sound DIFFERENT - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 05:48:37 12/29/05 (0)
- I agree about improvements - Feanor 05:37:08 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: I agree about improvements - kerr 06:59:57 12/28/05 (2)
- Fair, and since you asked ... - Feanor 08:48:37 12/28/05 (1)
- I'm good with that - kerr 16:12:04 12/28/05 (0)
- Interesting on two fronts - kerr 04:48:19 12/28/05 (22)
- Well, y'all movin' right along, here! - Silver Eared John 11:36:47 12/28/05 (5)
- And you're perfect for my next question - kerr 12:41:51 12/28/05 (4)
- I don't know, really... - Silver Eared John 23:34:36 12/28/05 (3)
- Live is 'sighted listening'… - David Aiken 22:28:45 12/29/05 (1)
- I think it goes way beyond that, though... - Silver Eared John 12:43:06 12/31/05 (0)
- Agreed and agreed - kerr 04:36:38 12/29/05 (0)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Dan Banquer 05:12:25 12/28/05 (15)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - jneutron 07:43:55 12/28/05 (10)
- Re: I thought Cables had that (dubious) distinction * - Guy 12:27:04 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Dan Banquer 10:06:11 12/28/05 (8)
- Boy, ain't that the truth? - Silver Eared John 11:39:30 12/28/05 (1)
- Not totally - kerr 12:33:01 12/28/05 (0)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - jneutron 10:31:11 12/28/05 (5)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Dan Banquer 11:14:30 12/28/05 (4)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Jim Austin 19:10:47 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - jneutron 13:21:07 12/29/05 (2)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - Jim Austin 04:37:52 12/30/05 (1)
- Re: Interesting on two fronts - jneutron 05:59:23 12/30/05 (0)
- DBT isn't an obsure, technical topic anymore - Feanor 06:19:01 12/28/05 (3)
- Re: DBT isn't an obsure, technical topic anymore - soulfood 08:33:35 12/28/05 (2)
- Sorry to bother you with a few facts ~nt - Feanor 09:06:49 12/28/05 (1)
- My opinions are facts. ;^) (nt) - soulfood 10:09:00 12/28/05 (0)
Follow Ups
- I think the test was pure BS -- however that doesn't mean the amplifier you bought was not a great amplifier! - Richard BassNut Greene 12/28/0511:31:38 12/28/05 (0)
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