There is NO MAGIC here

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Topic - Delta-Sigma vs. R2R - scriabin 09:31:57 02/12/24 (113)

Have you tried Chord? - Freo-1 13:28:37 02/26/24 (0)

There is NO MAGIC here - Feanor 02/16/2405:02:26 02/16/24 (70)

RE: There is NO MAGIC here - morricab 02:46:09 02/21/24 (52)

Soundstage is one of the most subjective of attributes - Feanor 04:15:16 02/21/24 (51)

SO ... HOW do we measure soundstage??? - Feanor 05:41:07 02/22/24 (9)

RE: SO ... HOW do we measure soundstage??? - morricab 07:08:11 02/22/24 (6)

OK, but how do we know the D90se is "brighter" than it should be? - Feanor 09:56:52 02/22/24 (5)

RE: OK, but how do we know the D90se is "brighter" than it should be? - morricab 02:52:34 02/23/24 (4)

Who says the D90SE is bright? - kjg 11:23:28 02/23/24 (3)

RE: Who says the D90SE is bright? - morricab 07:20:01 02/29/24 (2)

Say what !?! You haven't actually heard the D90SE?? - Feanor 04:51:38 03/4/24 (1)

RE: Say what !?! You haven't actually heard the D90SE?? - morricab 05:52:42 03/4/24 (0)

RE: SO ... HOW do we measure soundstage??? - Tre' 06:57:25 02/22/24 (1)

RE: SO ... HOW do we measure soundstage??? - morricab 07:16:00 02/22/24 (0)

RE: Soundstage is one of the most subjective of attributes - morricab 01:04:42 02/22/24 (5)

I'm saying the 'sometimes' a perceived phenomenon is an *artifact* - Feanor 05:17:13 02/22/24 (4)

RE: I'm saying the 'sometimes' a perceived phenomenon is an *artifact* - morricab 06:52:37 02/22/24 (3)

Yes, the whole point of stereo - Feanor 10:06:03 02/22/24 (2)

RE: Yes, the whole point of stereo - Dawnrazor 22:05:01 02/22/24 (1)

My Apt Holman preamp of years ago had an interesting circuit - Feanor 12:56:24 02/23/24 (0)

RE: Soundstage is one of the most subjective of attributes - morricab 00:54:15 02/22/24 (3)

It *IS* psychoacoustic and is real (IMO) - Feanor 04:34:31 02/22/24 (2)

RE: It *IS* psychoacoustic and is real (IMO) - morricab 07:11:26 02/22/24 (1)

What is "magic"? It's a phenomenon which is beyond explanation - Feanor 10:10:19 02/24/24 (0)

"There is certainly no objective measure for it." - mlsstl 06:57:27 02/21/24 (30)

Like I said, research into what affect soundstage perception would be useful - Feanor 04:23:22 02/22/24 (0)

"The problem with measurements". Some thoughts .... - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 11:21:44 02/21/24 (15)

RE: "The problem with measurements". Some thoughts .... - morricab 00:58:54 02/22/24 (14)

RE: "The problem with measurements". Some thoughts .... - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 10:22:48 02/22/24 (5)

RE: "The problem with measurements". Some thoughts .... - morricab 07:55:21 02/29/24 (0)

An 'artifact' in case of single-component soundstage - Feanor 04:36:38 02/26/24 (3)

RE: An 'artifact' in case of single-component soundstage - morricab 08:01:28 02/29/24 (2)

So what "magic" accounts for the phenomenon? - Feanor 04:49:31 03/4/24 (1)

RE: So what "magic" accounts for the phenomenon? - morricab 06:05:38 03/4/24 (0)

Depends of the DAC (??) - Feanor 05:11:37 02/22/24 (7)

RE: Depends of the DAC (??) - morricab 07:23:34 02/22/24 (6)

How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - Feanor 10:19:33 02/24/24 (5)

RE: How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 19:34:16 02/25/24 (1)

RE: How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - morricab 07:22:59 02/29/24 (0)

RE: How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - mlsstl 12:49:37 02/24/24 (1)

Thanks for that, which I have seen before. Also ... - Feanor 04:24:12 02/26/24 (0)

RE: How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - morricab 11:28:45 02/24/24 (0)

Amen! - E-Stat 10:07:51 02/21/24 (3)

Yhoo, E-Stat: no strawmen, please - Feanor 04:27:54 02/22/24 (2)

I suppose it's difficult to imagine - E-Stat 12:23:54 02/22/24 (1)

Congradulations, E-Stat, you have the last word ~n - Feanor 08:45:21 02/26/24 (0)

RE: "There is certainly no objective measure for it." - Dawnrazor 07:48:54 02/21/24 (8)

RE: "There is certainly no objective measure for it." - morricab 01:06:20 02/22/24 (7)

Exactly - Feanor 08:43:43 02/26/24 (1)

RE: Exactly - morricab 07:35:16 02/29/24 (0)

RE: "There is certainly no objective measure for it." - Dawnrazor 08:59:08 02/22/24 (4)

You'rd confused as to which sort of "soundstage" is being discussed here - Feanor 08:38:17 02/26/24 (2)

RE: You'rd confused as to which sort of "soundstage" is being discussed here - Dawnrazor 10:18:35 02/26/24 (1)

RE: You'rd confused as to which sort of "soundstage" is being discussed here - morricab 07:39:28 02/29/24 (0)

RE: "There is certainly no objective measure for it." - morricab 09:54:07 02/22/24 (0)

RE: There is NO MAGIC here - Todd Krieger 19:02:32 02/17/24 (1)

RE: There is NO MAGIC here - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 16:00:27 02/19/24 (0)

you went from R2R & DeltaSigma to something that is extremely complicated and difficult to deal with - Story 02:49:13 02/17/24 (1)

Exactly ... - Feanor 04:12:27 02/17/24 (0)

I like the part where he listened to it. - Dawnrazor 21:16:20 02/16/24 (8)

As Story implied ... - Feanor 04:17:40 02/17/24 (7)

RE: As Story implied ... - Dawnrazor 20:16:59 02/19/24 (6)

"unless you listen to graphs" - E-Stat 11:23:26 02/20/24 (0)

Almost completely disagree though I can't question personal preference - Feanor 04:57:35 02/20/24 (4)

RE: Almost completely disagree though I can't question personal preference - KanedaK 21:04:03 02/21/24 (1)

RE: Almost completely disagree though I can't question personal preference - Dawnrazor 08:47:09 02/22/24 (0)

RE: Almost completely disagree though I can't question personal preference - Dawnrazor 08:40:10 02/20/24 (1)

Like I said, I can't question personal preference ~nt - Feanor 04:17:16 02/21/24 (0)

Hmm, got an 807 amp I built years ago, ran it 24/7 for 3 years, there ARE different ways to build_nT - Cleantimestream 09:42:19 02/16/24 (3)

There are different ways to manipulate the sound - Feanor 04:20:41 02/17/24 (0)

Bags of 807's by the pound everywhere.... - AbeCollins 12:14:25 02/16/24 (1)

RE: Bags of 807's by the pound everywhere.... - Cleantimestream 12:35:44 02/16/24 (0)

RE: Delta-Sigma vs. R2R - morricab 07:18:07 02/14/24 (1)

RE: Delta-Sigma vs. R2R - Dawnrazor 10:05:23 02/22/24 (0)

RE: Delta-Sigma vs. R2R - morricab 06:48:46 02/14/24 (2)

"They were very expensive to buy..." - AbeCollins 22:22:08 02/14/24 (1)

RE: "They were very expensive to buy..." - morricab 07:31:06 02/16/24 (0)

RE: Delta-Sigma vs. R2R - MylesJ 23:36:22 02/12/24 (0)

RE: Delta-Sigma vs. R2R - niws 20:55:06 02/12/24 (0)

RE: Delta-Sigma vs. R2R - Mali 11:51:48 02/12/24 (0)

What's your budget? - Mike K 10:11:26 02/12/24 (0)

RE: Delta-Sigma vs. R2R - AbeCollins 10:01:28 02/12/24 (29)

Voicing shmoicing - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 11:04:16 02/12/24 (28)

Most manufacturers don't talk about it but voicing is real..... - AbeCollins 12:10:08 02/12/24 (27)

R2R is not just discrete! - morricab 06:55:57 02/14/24 (4)

Not all but many are discrete - RE: R2R is not just discrete! - AbeCollins 12:42:38 02/15/24 (3)

RE: Not all but many are discrete - RE: R2R is not just discrete! - morricab 07:10:24 02/16/24 (2)

RE: Not all but many are discrete - RE: R2R is not just discrete! - AbeCollins 13:37:58 02/16/24 (1)

RE: Not all but many are discrete - RE: R2R is not just discrete! - morricab 13:20:21 02/18/24 (0)

RE: Most manufacturers don't talk about it but voicing is real..... - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 15:34:51 02/12/24 (20)

RE: Most manufacturers don't talk about it but voicing is real..... - morricab 06:59:09 02/14/24 (0)

RE: Most manufacturers don't talk about it but voicing is real..... - E-Stat 13:21:28 02/13/24 (16)

RE: Most manufacturers don't talk about it but voicing is real..... - morricab 07:04:35 02/14/24 (0)

More an audiophile laundry list than insight - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 16:41:52 02/13/24 (14)

For the past fifty years - E-Stat 06:32:38 02/14/24 (13)

A stiff PSU is a good goal but there are no linear circuits that are not also 'corrected' in some way (nt) - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 09:46:50 02/14/24 (12)

Hence the use of the term "minimum" - E-Stat 13:28:59 02/14/24 (11)

Feedback conundrum - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 16:29:31 02/14/24 (10)

Hence the use of the term "applied" - E-Stat 06:21:15 02/15/24 (0)

RE: Feedback - Part 4 - tketcham 04:35:09 02/15/24 (7)

A nice summary and exemplary non-guruship - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 11:45:33 02/15/24 (0)

RE: Feedback - Part 4 - Story 06:09:53 02/15/24 (5)

RE: Feedback - Part 4 - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 11:56:24 02/15/24 (4)

RE: Feedback - Part 4 - morricab 07:24:38 02/16/24 (3)

Sort of-ish - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 14:52:23 02/16/24 (2)

RE: Sort of-ish - morricab 13:14:23 02/18/24 (1)

RE: Sort of-ish - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 00:01:37 02/19/24 (0)

RE: Feedback conundrum - AbeCollins 22:25:53 02/14/24 (0)

RE: Most manufacturers don't talk about it but voicing is real..... - AbeCollins 20:12:37 02/12/24 (1)

RE: Most manufacturers don't talk about it but voicing is real..... - morricab 07:07:55 02/14/24 (0)

+1! nt - chocolate_lover 13:14:39 02/12/24 (0)

RE: Delta-Sigma vs. R2R - Story 09:55:11 02/12/24 (1)

Thanks to all for their informative comments. Much Appreciated. - scriabin 16:03:30 02/12/24 (0)

Follow Ups

There is NO MAGIC here - Feanor 02/16/2405:02:26 02/16/24 (70)

RE: There is NO MAGIC here - morricab 02:46:09 02/21/24 (52)

Soundstage is one of the most subjective of attributes - Feanor 04:15:16 02/21/24 (51)

SO ... HOW do we measure soundstage??? - Feanor 05:41:07 02/22/24 (9)

RE: SO ... HOW do we measure soundstage??? - morricab 07:08:11 02/22/24 (6)

OK, but how do we know the D90se is "brighter" than it should be? - Feanor 09:56:52 02/22/24 (5)

RE: OK, but how do we know the D90se is "brighter" than it should be? - morricab 02:52:34 02/23/24 (4)

Who says the D90SE is bright? - kjg 11:23:28 02/23/24 (3)

RE: Who says the D90SE is bright? - morricab 07:20:01 02/29/24 (2)

Say what !?! You haven't actually heard the D90SE?? - Feanor 04:51:38 03/4/24 (1)

RE: Say what !?! You haven't actually heard the D90SE?? - morricab 05:52:42 03/4/24 (0)

RE: SO ... HOW do we measure soundstage??? - Tre' 06:57:25 02/22/24 (1)

RE: SO ... HOW do we measure soundstage??? - morricab 07:16:00 02/22/24 (0)

RE: Soundstage is one of the most subjective of attributes - morricab 01:04:42 02/22/24 (5)

I'm saying the 'sometimes' a perceived phenomenon is an *artifact* - Feanor 05:17:13 02/22/24 (4)

RE: I'm saying the 'sometimes' a perceived phenomenon is an *artifact* - morricab 06:52:37 02/22/24 (3)

Yes, the whole point of stereo - Feanor 10:06:03 02/22/24 (2)

RE: Yes, the whole point of stereo - Dawnrazor 22:05:01 02/22/24 (1)

My Apt Holman preamp of years ago had an interesting circuit - Feanor 12:56:24 02/23/24 (0)

RE: Soundstage is one of the most subjective of attributes - morricab 00:54:15 02/22/24 (3)

It *IS* psychoacoustic and is real (IMO) - Feanor 04:34:31 02/22/24 (2)

RE: It *IS* psychoacoustic and is real (IMO) - morricab 07:11:26 02/22/24 (1)

What is "magic"? It's a phenomenon which is beyond explanation - Feanor 10:10:19 02/24/24 (0)

"There is certainly no objective measure for it." - mlsstl 06:57:27 02/21/24 (30)

Like I said, research into what affect soundstage perception would be useful - Feanor 04:23:22 02/22/24 (0)

"The problem with measurements". Some thoughts .... - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 11:21:44 02/21/24 (15)

RE: "The problem with measurements". Some thoughts .... - morricab 00:58:54 02/22/24 (14)

RE: "The problem with measurements". Some thoughts .... - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 10:22:48 02/22/24 (5)

RE: "The problem with measurements". Some thoughts .... - morricab 07:55:21 02/29/24 (0)

An 'artifact' in case of single-component soundstage - Feanor 04:36:38 02/26/24 (3)

RE: An 'artifact' in case of single-component soundstage - morricab 08:01:28 02/29/24 (2)

So what "magic" accounts for the phenomenon? - Feanor 04:49:31 03/4/24 (1)

RE: So what "magic" accounts for the phenomenon? - morricab 06:05:38 03/4/24 (0)

Depends of the DAC (??) - Feanor 05:11:37 02/22/24 (7)

RE: Depends of the DAC (??) - morricab 07:23:34 02/22/24 (6)

How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - Feanor 10:19:33 02/24/24 (5)

RE: How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 19:34:16 02/25/24 (1)

RE: How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - morricab 07:22:59 02/29/24 (0)

RE: How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - mlsstl 12:49:37 02/24/24 (1)

Thanks for that, which I have seen before. Also ... - Feanor 04:24:12 02/26/24 (0)

RE: How do FETs measure differently from bipolars? - morricab 11:28:45 02/24/24 (0)

Amen! - E-Stat 10:07:51 02/21/24 (3)

Yhoo, E-Stat: no strawmen, please - Feanor 04:27:54 02/22/24 (2)

I suppose it's difficult to imagine - E-Stat 12:23:54 02/22/24 (1)

Congradulations, E-Stat, you have the last word ~n - Feanor 08:45:21 02/26/24 (0)

RE: "There is certainly no objective measure for it." - Dawnrazor 07:48:54 02/21/24 (8)

RE: "There is certainly no objective measure for it." - morricab 01:06:20 02/22/24 (7)

Exactly - Feanor 08:43:43 02/26/24 (1)

RE: Exactly - morricab 07:35:16 02/29/24 (0)

RE: "There is certainly no objective measure for it." - Dawnrazor 08:59:08 02/22/24 (4)

You'rd confused as to which sort of "soundstage" is being discussed here - Feanor 08:38:17 02/26/24 (2)

RE: You'rd confused as to which sort of "soundstage" is being discussed here - Dawnrazor 10:18:35 02/26/24 (1)

RE: You'rd confused as to which sort of "soundstage" is being discussed here - morricab 07:39:28 02/29/24 (0)

RE: "There is certainly no objective measure for it." - morricab 09:54:07 02/22/24 (0)

RE: There is NO MAGIC here - Todd Krieger 19:02:32 02/17/24 (1)

RE: There is NO MAGIC here - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 16:00:27 02/19/24 (0)

you went from R2R & DeltaSigma to something that is extremely complicated and difficult to deal with - Story 02:49:13 02/17/24 (1)

Exactly ... - Feanor 04:12:27 02/17/24 (0)

I like the part where he listened to it. - Dawnrazor 21:16:20 02/16/24 (8)

As Story implied ... - Feanor 04:17:40 02/17/24 (7)

RE: As Story implied ... - Dawnrazor 20:16:59 02/19/24 (6)

"unless you listen to graphs" - E-Stat 11:23:26 02/20/24 (0)

Almost completely disagree though I can't question personal preference - Feanor 04:57:35 02/20/24 (4)

RE: Almost completely disagree though I can't question personal preference - KanedaK 21:04:03 02/21/24 (1)

RE: Almost completely disagree though I can't question personal preference - Dawnrazor 08:47:09 02/22/24 (0)

RE: Almost completely disagree though I can't question personal preference - Dawnrazor 08:40:10 02/20/24 (1)

Like I said, I can't question personal preference ~nt - Feanor 04:17:16 02/21/24 (0)

Hmm, got an 807 amp I built years ago, ran it 24/7 for 3 years, there ARE different ways to build_nT - Cleantimestream 09:42:19 02/16/24 (3)

There are different ways to manipulate the sound - Feanor 04:20:41 02/17/24 (0)

Bags of 807's by the pound everywhere.... - AbeCollins 12:14:25 02/16/24 (1)

RE: Bags of 807's by the pound everywhere.... - Cleantimestream 12:35:44 02/16/24 (0)

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