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Critic's Corner Discuss a review. Provide constructive feedback. Talk to the industry. |
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In Reply to: Changing the topic. posted by Pat D on May 15, 2006 at 12:57:22:
I'm having trouble reconciling Holt's statement:"an A/B test doesn't reveal small differences between components as well as does prolonged listening."
with your conclusion:
JGH thought the ABX comparator was neutral enough not to affect the results.
If something "doesn't reveal small differences", then how does it *not* affect the results? I'm all ears.
rw
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Let's play "Who is this critic?" ......... Here's clue #1 - Richard BassNut Greene 11:00:18 05/15/06 (167)
- Hmmmm-Let's see-86 Posts thus far - kavakidd 11:32:33 05/16/06 (11)
- Yep. An exercise in higher pointlessness. - Dave Pogue 04:26:02 05/17/06 (0)
- Frank Zappa got it right - Doktor Brahms 13:13:00 05/16/06 (2)
- Group polarization - Robert Deutsch 15:23:37 05/16/06 (1)
- Re: Group polarization - regmac 17:44:40 05/16/06 (0)
- Is there an easy way of counting? nt - clarkjohnsen 12:37:22 05/16/06 (5)
- After 17000 posts here what did you think the numbers on the screen after the date of each post meant all these years? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:30:11 05/18/06 (0)
- Counting what? Posts or Changed minds? - kavakidd 12:42:12 05/16/06 (3)
- I meant, is there a register accessible somewhere? nt - clarkjohnsen 09:23:21 05/17/06 (2)
- If you mean - to count the # of posts - - kavakidd 09:31:05 05/17/06 (1)
- Aha! nt - clarkjohnsen 09:45:21 05/17/06 (0)
- Precisely. -t - Bruce Kendall 11:41:19 05/16/06 (0)
- I have a GREAT idea for something REALLY new! - kerr 13:29:36 05/15/06 (53)
- I vote this be a DBT free zone. - Bruce Kendall 18:00:18 05/15/06 (52)
- Bad idea. Some critics use DBTs. - Pat D 16:17:18 05/17/06 (1)
- Well, that is where it all falls apart, isn't it? -t - Bruce Kendall 11:06:38 05/18/06 (0)
- Agreed! Great idea, Bruce... - mkuller 17:54:29 05/16/06 (8)
- So you want to exclude discussion of critics who use DBTs? - Pat D 08:22:55 05/18/06 (1)
- They aren't relevant to most of the discussions here...(nt) - mkuller 11:17:04 05/18/06 (0)
- Now, I just have to work on the fact that my vote doesn't mean squat. - Bruce Kendall 18:35:36 05/16/06 (5)
- A serious proposal for a practical solution. - bjh 04:24:15 05/17/06 (4)
- Re: A serious proposal for a practical solution. - andy19191 05:12:35 05/17/06 (3)
- Andy, Andy, Andy... - mkuller 10:47:51 05/17/06 (0)
- BSRNR - bjh 06:32:45 05/17/06 (1)
- BSRNR sounds great to me. - Bruce Kendall 07:22:21 05/17/06 (0)
- I Oppose Such Proposal..... - Todd Krieger 08:54:11 05/16/06 (7)
- I am not suggesting the topic be suppressed. - Bruce Kendall 10:51:00 05/16/06 (0)
- BUT! BUT! - lancelot 10:45:14 05/16/06 (5)
- Because listening to music offers them no satisfaction... - SalD 12:39:41 05/17/06 (0)
- They're like missionaries from some weird religion - Bruce Kendall 10:53:01 05/16/06 (3)
- It's a cult! - mkuller 15:21:19 05/16/06 (2)
- It's a disease! :) nt - bjh 17:58:24 05/16/06 (1)
- I think it's just an insane desire to impose their will - kerr 18:31:51 05/16/06 (0)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - andy19191 05:32:34 05/16/06 (30)
- No one is reasonable on this topic - Bruce Kendall 06:49:52 05/16/06 (2)
- Re: No one is reasonable on this topic - andy19191 08:21:20 05/16/06 (1)
- Don't understand what you mean be "science" or by "reasonable" - Sordidman 12:42:37 05/17/06 (0)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - kerr 06:24:23 05/16/06 (17)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - andy19191 07:30:25 05/16/06 (16)
- There are no objectivists - Sordidman 12:53:07 05/17/06 (0)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - kerr 08:02:08 05/16/06 (14)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - andy19191 13:43:52 05/16/06 (11)
- By the way - kerr 18:11:16 05/16/06 (0)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - kerr 18:03:37 05/16/06 (9)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - andy19191 04:08:25 05/17/06 (8)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - kerr 04:55:19 05/17/06 (7)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - andy19191 06:18:29 05/17/06 (6)
- Re: "Education does tend to open rather than close the mind." - geoffkait 08:48:24 05/17/06 (0)
- BTDTYFNGISOIGTSBMHATOBW - kerr 07:56:00 05/17/06 (4)
- You did really well, IMO. FWIW - Sordidman 13:18:18 05/17/06 (1)
- Not really, but the reason is... - kerr 14:58:29 05/17/06 (0)
- OCWABOAAAHZ-EBGCATRSOCU - bjh 08:18:33 05/17/06 (1)
- NS! - kerr 10:28:50 05/17/06 (0)
- Pretty damned good - - kavakidd 08:32:07 05/16/06 (1)
- I've been around the debate awhile - kerr 09:20:39 05/16/06 (0)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - thetubeguy1954 06:08:36 05/16/06 (8)
- Re: I vote this be a DBT free zone. - andy19191 07:53:56 05/16/06 (7)
- What happened to the tradition of using "science" - bjh 08:08:07 05/16/06 (6)
- Re: What happened to the tradition of using "science" - andy19191 13:58:47 05/16/06 (1)
- OK, so we'll call this episode of "Prove It" complete. Such fun ... Yaaaaaaaaaaawn nt - bjh 17:57:07 05/16/06 (0)
- If there were a science behind wines, cars, and audio, we would have one brand. nt - Norm 09:38:15 05/16/06 (3)
- That's nonsense. But the sales of "Two-Buck Chuck" could explode if winos perform like audiophiles in their DBTs ! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:53:35 05/16/06 (2)
- That is certainly a conclusive argument. - Norm 11:11:08 05/16/06 (1)
- Re: That is certainly a conclusive argument. - regmac 17:34:33 05/16/06 (0)
- Second that.......... - JohnL 22:31:01 05/15/06 (1)
- What??? - kerr 04:43:37 05/16/06 (0)
- Really....... What is the point? - TomJ 13:09:23 05/15/06 (0)
- What's your point, Mr. Greene? - John Atkinson 11:40:35 05/15/06 (28)
- Initially, I was kind of curious about that one myself. - regmac 15:47:41 05/16/06 (2)
- "Almost makes one yearn for DonT, doesn't it?" It does not! nt - clarkjohnsen 10:05:09 05/17/06 (1)
- I take it you two don't exchange XMAS cards? :) NT - regmac 13:36:50 05/17/06 (0)
- J. Gordon Holt's point was that double blind tests would finally prove he could really hear differences he wrote about - Richard BassNut Greene 09:24:21 05/16/06 (10)
- You are on record (below) - bjh 09:39:25 05/16/06 (9)
- 100+ blind tests but only 3 positives for electronics & wires & many null results(Sighted auditions = NO null results) - Richard BassNut Greene 17:08:29 05/17/06 (3)
- Richard, when I asked ... - bjh 20:15:38 05/17/06 (2)
- 100+ DBTs with only 3 positive results for electronics & wires is within the expected margin of error(4 false positives) - Richard BassNut Greene 08:52:38 05/18/06 (1)
- RBSD - bjh 09:58:04 05/18/06 (0)
- You are just proving you are no logician. - Pat D 14:06:31 05/16/06 (4)
- No comment deserved. nt - bjh 17:39:28 05/16/06 (3)
- So you think probability isn't probability but certainty? - Pat D 16:24:30 05/17/06 (2)
- Soitenly ...but it's wonderful to know sighted auditions NEVER have any errors -- ALL components ALWAYS sound different - Richard BassNut Greene 09:24:41 05/18/06 (1)
- Re: Soitenly ...but it's wonderful to know sighted auditions NEVER have any errors -- ALL components ALWAYS sound differ - Pat D 13:17:09 05/23/06 (0)
- I'm still bowled over by your previous postings - Soundmind 17:35:32 05/15/06 (13)
- Congradulations!, you've just been selected as the next contestant in the "Prove It" game. LOL nt - bjh 09:48:30 05/16/06 (1)
- FOMCLMAOAPMP! - kerr 09:56:26 05/16/06 (0)
- Who is claiming the ability to hear a 0.25dB change to one slider of a 30 band equalizer? ... Any proof of this ability? - Richard BassNut Greene 09:31:58 05/16/06 (9)
- Why do equalizers have 0.25db gradations if they are inaudible? (nt) - SalD 16:17:00 05/16/06 (0)
- Re: Who is claiming the ability to hear a 0.25dB change to one slider of a 30 band equalizer? ... Any proof of this abil - John Atkinson 10:32:43 05/16/06 (6)
- The sentence suggested someone could hear a 0.25dB change in any 30-band equalizer band & I didn't believe it - Richard BassNut Greene 16:17:10 05/17/06 (2)
- Skepticism & proof - John Atkinson 06:32:03 05/18/06 (1)
- Skepticism only increases with responses such as: "I am not obliged to prove anything ... " - Richard BassNut Greene 09:54:09 05/18/06 (0)
- Why equalizers for mastering recordings but not for playback? - Soundmind 11:11:49 05/16/06 (2)
- Re: Why equalizers for mastering recordings but not for playback? - John Atkinson 11:56:10 05/16/06 (1)
- Re: Why equalizers for mastering recordings but not for playback? - Soundmind 14:21:24 05/16/06 (0)
- What puzzles me most..... - Soundmind 10:06:31 05/16/06 (0)
- Re: I'm still bowled over by your previous postings - John Atkinson 04:12:04 05/16/06 (0)
- I'm guessing it's not HP... - Cochise 11:33:50 05/15/06 (0)
- I'm thinking Aczel... - Bob Rex 11:28:42 05/15/06 (23)
- Not Aczel, but here is a great quote from Aczel you may enjoy ... or maybe not? - Richard BassNut Greene 07:30:55 05/16/06 (22)
- Simple answer - kerr 08:06:06 05/16/06 (18)
- A subjective audiophile with a good sense of humor like you, is as rare as ... - Richard BassNut Greene 09:40:20 05/16/06 (17)
- Re: " Democrat saying something positive about America" - Rob Doorack 07:24:58 05/17/06 (7)
- You Dumbocraps just have no sense of humor ! - Richard BassNut Greene 17:27:40 05/17/06 (6)
- Re: You Dumbocraps just have no sense of humor ! - Rob Doorack 07:47:31 05/18/06 (1)
- Rob you can call me ANYTHING but please don't call me a Repooplican --- Please! - Richard BassNut Greene 10:22:33 05/18/06 (0)
- Richard, thanks for that clarification - andy_c 21:16:53 05/17/06 (3)
- Aw geez! NOW ya REALLY did it! - kerr 14:23:07 05/18/06 (2)
- I can prove I'm sane -- just look at these test results! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:44:21 05/19/06 (1)
- LOL! Perhaps they found nothing... - kerr 11:28:09 05/19/06 (0)
- I knew you'd take it as it was intended! :) - kerr 09:53:51 05/16/06 (8)
- Yet another golden-ear-big-ego-my-stereo-is-better-than-yours-and- I-can-hear-better-than-you fantasy ! - Richard BassNut Greene 17:35:02 05/17/06 (7)
- Re: Yet another golden-ear-big-ego-my-stereo-is-better-than-yours-and- I-can-hear-better-than-you fantasy ! - kerr 11:31:58 05/19/06 (0)
- Re: Yet another golden-ear-big-ego-my-stereo-is-better-than-yours-and- I-can-hear-better-than-you fantasy ! - bjh 18:32:42 05/17/06 (5)
- bjh those ALL CAPS and multiple exclamation points !!!!!!! were so exciting I actually read your post this time - Richard BassNut Greene 10:33:36 05/18/06 (4)
- Jesus Richard, chill out ... it was a joke! Did you actually miss it! LOL - bjh 11:40:39 05/18/06 (3)
- I forgot what we were disagreeing about, however I'm sure you were *C*O*M*P*L*E*T*E*L*Y* wrong about whatever it was - Richard BassNut Greene 13:42:11 05/18/06 (2)
- I like this new theme of foolishness, the previous, pointing out your lack of credibility, was getting boring! nt - bjh 14:36:40 05/18/06 (1)
- Cut out the jokes and let's get back to the serious business of criticizing each others posts & comparing each others.. - Richard BassNut Greene 09:48:52 05/19/06 (0)
- Not. Actually I still can't get over the fact he returned to audio after he disgraced himself! No shame apparently. nt - bjh 07:52:49 05/16/06 (2)
- Here's one for ya..... - Bob Rex 16:39:58 05/16/06 (0)
- And yet he can still refer to OTHERS as hypocrites! (nt) - kerr 08:06:49 05/16/06 (0)
- ... "Who is this critic?" ......... Here's clue #2 - Richard BassNut Greene 11:15:18 05/15/06 (45)
- Re: ... "Who is this critic?" ......... Here's clue #3 - Richard BassNut Greene 11:21:15 05/15/06 (44)
- Who is this critic? -- Final clue #4 - Richard BassNut Greene 11:23:03 05/15/06 (43)
- My guess: J. Gordon Holt (nt) - John N 11:39:49 05/15/06 (42)
- He was wrong about this... - mkuller 14:11:00 05/15/06 (3)
- Holt was right about the ABX comparator -- just wrong about the "house" built with this tool - Richard BassNut Greene 09:47:41 05/16/06 (2)
- So says the guy who with the Magic Wand ... - bjh 10:05:08 05/16/06 (1)
- I responded to that post brilliantly, as usual - Richard BassNut Greene 17:43:45 05/17/06 (0)
- Of course it was. - Pat D 11:53:38 05/15/06 (37)
- "...which takes the fraud out of subjective testing" - andy_c 18:37:10 05/15/06 (1)
- Re: "...which takes the fraud out of subjective testing" - Pat D 11:23:19 05/18/06 (0)
- Take some, take it all! ... JGH on the ABX comparator ... - bjh 12:24:37 05/15/06 (34)
- Holt went crazy over the very first Sony CD player too - Dave Pogue 16:48:10 05/15/06 (25)
- i never heard a 'first sony' - hifitommy 19:07:19 05/15/06 (0)
- Well I don't know? - bjh 17:25:39 05/15/06 (23)
- If the old CD players hold up in DBTs, - Dave Pogue 17:55:57 05/15/06 (22)
- Re: If the old CD players hold up in DBTs, - Soundmind 19:04:36 05/15/06 (21)
- Why disagree about mediocrity? (nt) - E-Stat 19:19:12 05/15/06 (20)
- I don't. When it comes to reproducing music, all current systems are mediocre (or worse) (nt) - Soundmind 20:48:08 05/15/06 (19)
- Yeah nothing like - bjh 21:07:14 05/15/06 (18)
- OK, since you asked about my system I'll finally discuss it; - Soundmind 04:47:53 05/16/06 (17)
- Re: OK, since you asked about my system I'll finally discuss it; - David Yost 08:20:32 05/16/06 (4)
- Re: OK, since you asked about my system I'll finally discuss it; - Soundmind 09:01:48 05/16/06 (3)
- Re: OK, since you asked about my system I'll finally discuss it; - David Yost 09:32:12 05/16/06 (2)
- Re: OK, since you asked about my system I'll finally discuss it; - Soundmind 09:48:17 05/16/06 (1)
- Let me refresh your memory... - E-Stat 10:08:29 05/16/06 (0)
- Let's make it real simple ... - bjh 08:19:42 05/16/06 (0)
- Translations - E-Stat 06:42:04 05/16/06 (1)
- Lordy! nt - clarkjohnsen 10:19:33 05/16/06 (0)
- Well it would appear that you've answered some of your - bjh 05:34:30 05/16/06 (8)
- Re: Well it would appear that you've answered some of your - Soundmind 06:10:08 05/16/06 (7)
- Re: Well it would appear that you've answered some of your - Grant 07:07:07 05/16/06 (1)
- Re: Well it would appear that you've answered some of your - Soundmind 08:04:18 05/16/06 (0)
- Re: Well it would appear that you've answered some of your - thetubeguy1954 06:43:53 05/16/06 (3)
- Re: Well it would appear that you've answered some of your - Soundmind 07:16:03 05/16/06 (2)
- Re: Well it would appear that you've answered some of your - regmac 07:45:02 05/16/06 (1)
- Sell you CDP and get a SOTA $50 DVD/CD Player. - bjh 07:57:56 05/16/06 (0)
- Re: Well it would appear that you've answered some of your - kerr 06:34:09 05/16/06 (0)
- Changing the topic. - Pat D 12:57:22 05/15/06 (7)
- Please 'splain something to me - E-Stat 05/15/0614:34:09 05/15/06 (5)
- Holt's statement flies in the face of Audio Aylum stated facts regarding DBT and ABX - Soundmind 18:59:25 05/15/06 (2)
- Trying to figure out where you meant to place this post (nt) - E-Stat 09:13:42 05/16/06 (1)
- Re: Trying to figure out where you meant to place this post (nt) - Soundmind 09:50:57 05/16/06 (0)
- You'd better ask Mr. Holt. (nt) - Pat D 18:21:31 05/15/06 (1)
- Don't need to - E-Stat 18:59:11 05/15/06 (0)
- No comment deserved. nt - bjh 13:05:11 05/15/06 (0)
Follow Ups
- Please 'splain something to me - E-Stat 05/15/0614:34:09 05/15/06 (5)
- Holt's statement flies in the face of Audio Aylum stated facts regarding DBT and ABX - Soundmind 18:59:25 05/15/06 (2)
- Trying to figure out where you meant to place this post (nt) - E-Stat 09:13:42 05/16/06 (1)
- Re: Trying to figure out where you meant to place this post (nt) - Soundmind 09:50:57 05/16/06 (0)
- You'd better ask Mr. Holt. (nt) - Pat D 18:21:31 05/15/06 (1)
- Don't need to - E-Stat 18:59:11 05/15/06 (0)
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