A 1974 Harman-Kardon Citation 11 - E-Stat

Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - Measurements and Listening - hexenboden 18:58:43 05/8/06 (159)

So after all this discussion, it still boils down to.... - Soundmind 06:09:36 05/12/06 (0)

Re: Measurements and Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:06:29 05/11/06 (0)

Re: Measurements and Listening - Don C 18:05:01 05/11/06 (0)

Agreed Hexenboden; measurements in my opinion are invaluable TOOLS - timothywas1@comcast.net 10:56:12 05/11/06 (0)

Measurements are objective -------- Reviews are just industry cheerleading (Cheerleaders are not Critics) - Richard BassNut Greene 09:50:47 05/11/06 (21)

Re: Measurements are objective -------- Reviews are just industry cheerleading (Cheerleaders are not Critics) - Jim Austin 04:32:09 05/12/06 (12)

Stereophile publishes measurements and then tells readers they don't mean much -- the Happy Face reviews live on! - Richard BassNut Greene 08:49:14 05/12/06 (5)

Stereophile History - John Atkinson 14:07:14 05/16/06 (1)

Facts can be true and misleading at the same time . Nevertheless, EVERY audiophile should subscribe to STEROPHILE - Richard BassNut Greene 11:07:41 05/18/06 (0)

Worth pointing out... - Jim Austin 08:58:28 05/12/06 (0)

There's a wide range of opinion out there... - Jim Austin 08:54:49 05/12/06 (1)

All audiophiles are subjective -- I'm the most subjective audiophile of all - Richard BassNut Greene 09:47:19 05/12/06 (0)

It would appears he has little tolerance for dissonance, - bjh 06:52:05 05/12/06 (5)

Your subject box and the rest of your post are completely uncomprehensible with seven commas in one loooooong sentence ! - Richard BassNut Greene 10:09:18 05/12/06 (4)

"Your subject box and the rest of your post are completely ..." Why not just "Your entire post is ..."? - bjh 11:04:44 05/12/06 (3)

That does it -- I'm tired of being called names by bjh and will NOT post here again ! - Richard BassNut Greene 11:19:04 05/12/06 (2)

Mr. Nut's post creates a rare occurance at CC ... The Wave ... - bjh 11:43:54 05/12/06 (1)

Did I hear church bells ringing? - markrohr 13:13:02 05/12/06 (0)

Is it too much to ask - lancelot 15:29:01 05/11/06 (0)

Re: Measurements are objective -------- Reviews are just industry cheerleading (Cheerleaders are not Critics) - Soundmind 13:46:14 05/11/06 (4)

Re: Measurements are objective -------- Reviews are just industry cheerleading (Cheerleaders are not Critics) - Grant 16:27:01 05/11/06 (3)

Actually, I'm thinking seriously of designing and building one - Soundmind 17:25:04 05/11/06 (2)

Re: Actually, I'm thinking seriously of designing and building one - Grant 20:23:21 05/11/06 (1)

Re: Actually, I'm thinking seriously of designing and building one - Soundmind 23:33:14 05/11/06 (0)

Re: Reviews are just industry cheerleading - hexenboden 10:35:32 05/11/06 (1)

Stereophile's policy on this is very similar to that of the old Stereo Review. - Pat D 10:53:43 05/11/06 (0)

Come on - Frihed89 21:57:35 05/10/06 (1)

Frequency response? - hexenboden 04:30:33 05/11/06 (0)

Measurements Should Complement Listening in Evaluation.... - Todd Krieger 11:24:06 05/10/06 (0)

Lack of correlation between measurements and listening - KlausR. 05:18:09 05/10/06 (77)

Re: Lack of correlation between measurements and listening - Soundmind 10:18:43 05/10/06 (76)

Re: Lack of correlation between measurements and listening - KlausR. 00:08:10 05/11/06 (72)

Criticizing the critics...and the designers - Soundmind 04:34:31 05/11/06 (71)

NOBODY listens to loudspeakers in an anechoic chamber - KlausR. 05:37:24 05/11/06 (67)

Re: NOBODY listens to loudspeakers in an anechoic chamber - Soundmind 06:10:53 05/11/06 (66)

Re: Polar response - KlausR. 09:12:58 05/11/06 (5)

Re: Polar response - Soundmind 09:28:06 05/11/06 (4)

You're welcome but... - KlausR. 09:34:17 05/11/06 (3)

Re: You're welcome but... - Soundmind 09:47:11 05/11/06 (2)

Polar response again - KlausR. 10:59:04 05/11/06 (1)

Re: Polar response again - Soundmind 11:44:13 05/11/06 (0)

Question - John Atkinson 06:41:16 05/11/06 (59)

I answered your question, now here's one for you - Soundmind 10:15:50 05/11/06 (34)

No - John Atkinson 12:02:54 05/11/06 (0)

Yes, a 5-band graphic equalizer, isn't it? Did you say it was 70's vintage? (sorry, but you've no system listed). nt - bjh 10:53:23 05/11/06 (32)

Re: Yes, a 5-band graphic equalizer, isn't it? Did you say it was 70's vintage? (sorry, but you've no system listed). nt - Soundmind 13:12:15 05/11/06 (31)

What preamp has a built-in 5-band equalizer? -t - Bruce Kendall 15:47:16 05/11/06 (27)

A 1974 Harman-Kardon Citation 11 - E-Stat 05/11/0616:02:53 05/11/06 (26)

Just wondering. - Bruce Kendall 18:31:56 05/11/06 (0)

Re: A 1974 Harman-Kardon Citation 11 - Soundmind 17:34:31 05/11/06 (24)

I'm shocked!! - E-Stat 17:40:30 05/11/06 (23)

Re: I'm shocked!! - Soundmind 17:52:54 05/11/06 (22)

2 years??!! - Bruce from DC 07:55:18 05/12/06 (12)

Re: 2 years??!! - Soundmind 08:58:41 05/12/06 (11)

Re: "measures flat but doesn't sound flat" - Bruce from DC 15:12:02 05/12/06 (1)

Reproducing sound to be perceived as identical to something else is always subjective, that's what perception means - Soundmind 16:03:52 05/12/06 (0)

Since when did Behringer become an audiophile firm? - E-Stat 14:59:29 05/12/06 (8)

What do you mean "WE" kimosabe? - Soundmind 16:13:26 05/12/06 (7)

Are you kidding? - E-Stat 16:27:15 05/12/06 (6)

Maybe I read your post wrong, looks like you fell off the deep end - Soundmind 17:10:20 05/12/06 (5)

You said you didn't like how they calculated "flat" and blamed audiophiles - E-Stat 17:19:46 05/12/06 (4)

Re: You said you didn't like how they calculated "flat" and blamed audiophiles - Soundmind 17:46:11 05/12/06 (3)

You left out one detail - E-Stat 18:48:02 05/12/06 (2)

Re: You left out one detail - Soundmind 19:27:23 05/12/06 (1)

Yeah, just think how much gear that could have - bjh 14:08:14 05/13/06 (0)

Ok, now I'm relieved - E-Stat 18:23:11 05/11/06 (8)

Re: Ok, now I'm relieved - Soundmind 18:54:00 05/11/06 (7)

Wow! I guess amongst graphic equalizer buffs you must be The Man! :) nt - bjh 19:21:31 05/11/06 (6)

I find them a useful and powerful tool when properly used - Soundmind 23:38:54 05/11/06 (5)

What audiophiles also tend to forget is... - KlausR. 08:51:08 05/12/06 (4)

Re: What audiophiles also tend to forget is... - Soundmind 09:03:33 05/12/06 (3)

Re: What audiophiles also tend to forget is... - Pat D 17:19:00 05/12/06 (2)

Another funny point - Soundmind 18:19:49 05/12/06 (1)

Have to wear the boots again with this one... - E-Stat 18:55:33 05/12/06 (0)

Did you dispense with the BSR 10 band units? - E-Stat 13:38:38 05/11/06 (2)

Eureka! I believe you've uncovered a means to clear the Dark Gloomy Cloud hanging over this forum, ... - bjh 13:46:32 05/11/06 (1)

As an "irrational audiophile", I will likely surprise the hell out of SM - E-Stat 14:33:52 05/11/06 (0)

Re: Question - RGA 07:36:19 05/11/06 (3)

"I'm sure he'd be less hostile in person." One would hope. However... - clarkjohnsen 08:47:23 05/11/06 (0)

"...I think a manufacturer should offer him a job" - bjh 08:35:36 05/11/06 (1)

I was being genuine... - RGA 08:54:55 05/12/06 (0)

Re: Question - Soundmind 07:17:13 05/11/06 (19)

Re: Question - hexenboden 10:48:09 05/11/06 (0)

Re: Question - Bruce from DC 10:15:08 05/11/06 (0)

I pick "C" - Pjay 08:36:39 05/11/06 (16)

Re: I pick "C" - Soundmind 09:12:40 05/11/06 (6)

Re: I pick "C" - Pjay 11:30:16 05/11/06 (0)

Have to agree - kerr 10:28:38 05/11/06 (1)

Re: Have to agree - Soundmind 11:55:47 05/11/06 (0)

"color television" huh? Tell me, when was the last time you attempted to "walk into" some scene on your TV? nt - bjh 10:07:45 05/11/06 (2)

Yeah, if he thinks color television problems have been "solved," - Dave Pogue 11:01:16 05/11/06 (0)

ps. Have you ever noticed that when you walk behind your TV set - bjh 10:44:44 05/11/06 (0)

Allow me to add a point? - KlausR. 09:00:57 05/11/06 (8)

Re: Allow me to add a point? - Soundmind 09:21:23 05/11/06 (7)

Re: And what do you suppose would happen if actual musicians performed in your listening room? - KlausR. 09:40:47 05/11/06 (6)

Re: And what do you suppose would happen if actual musicians performed in your listening room? - Soundmind 09:51:36 05/11/06 (5)

Back to mono? (nt) - KlausR. 10:48:30 05/11/06 (4)

Re: Back to mono? (nt) - Soundmind 11:46:09 05/11/06 (3)

Use two dozen of my 'stats - E-Stat 14:40:01 05/11/06 (2)

you won't get much privacy behind those dressing screens. - Soundmind 17:30:39 05/11/06 (1)

The best doesn't come cheaply -t - E-Stat 18:16:21 05/11/06 (0)

I beg to disagree - hexenboden 05:04:25 05/11/06 (2)

Re: I beg to disagree - Soundmind 05:25:19 05/11/06 (1)

LOL - hexenboden 11:04:59 05/11/06 (0)

Bugaboo - hexenboden 18:21:00 05/10/06 (0)

Surprise! - mkuller 12:07:42 05/10/06 (0)

Would it be too much to ask for - bjh 10:58:15 05/10/06 (0)

How can you compare published measurements to what you get in the showroom?? - Robert Hamel 19:11:26 05/9/06 (0)

If you want to try something... - real_jj 14:26:29 05/9/06 (11)

The point being that *real* ain't necessarilly flat, no? nt - bjh 16:51:54 05/9/06 (10)

When did I say flat was the objective? nt - hexenboden 18:16:39 05/9/06 (8)

"When did I say flat was the objective?" If you'd like to get something off your chest go for it! :) nt - bjh 18:59:17 05/9/06 (7)

OK I'll bite - hexenboden 19:59:20 05/9/06 (6)

Actually, microphones tend to exhibit a rise in sensitivity at the upper audible frequencies (nt) - Bersani 21:55:56 05/9/06 (5)

Yes, but concert halls - markrohr 10:14:01 05/10/06 (1)

Re: Yes, but concert halls - Soundmind 10:56:47 05/10/06 (0)

Microphone responses can be equalized (nt) - hexenboden 03:46:02 05/10/06 (2)

Perhaps I misunderstood... - Bersani 12:18:07 05/10/06 (1)

I meant - hexenboden 18:22:51 05/10/06 (0)

I hope that isn't the point... - Analog Scott 17:39:41 05/9/06 (0)

Re: Measurements and Listening - EdM 13:01:21 05/9/06 (25)

Your memory is too short - Dave Pogue 17:02:01 05/9/06 (0)

Re: Measurements and Listening - hexenboden 13:19:17 05/9/06 (23)

Re: Measurements and Listening - morricab 02:37:26 05/10/06 (0)

Re: Measurements and Listening - bjh 13:51:16 05/9/06 (21)

Ask and you shall receive ... - old2randr 17:41:49 05/9/06 (20)

"And you were the one defending subjective testing with no controls :-)" - bjh 18:04:20 05/9/06 (19)

Well, what was really amusing was that ... - old2randr 19:31:43 05/9/06 (18)

"and horror of horrror, bass relatively speaking MIA!" ... - bjh 19:50:13 05/9/06 (17)

Overdamping - hexenboden 20:02:14 05/9/06 (16)

Hey I had a lookm at the article Dan Banquer mentioned. ... - bjh 14:15:37 05/12/06 (0)

Overdamping???????????????? - Dan Banquer 16:00:56 05/11/06 (0)

PSB Stratus Gold-i. Not sure what you mean by "damp bass" but anyway I'd say the Golds have "damn good low bass". IME nt - bjh 20:16:25 05/9/06 (13)

"Too much" control of the woofer (nt) - hexenboden 03:51:23 05/10/06 (12)

"Too much" control of any driver may not be... - Ozzie 15:30:46 05/10/06 (0)

How so? And is that a well known and uncontroversial - bjh 04:15:30 05/10/06 (10)

Compatibility - hexenboden 17:41:38 05/10/06 (9)

In a case like yours I would normally advise - bjh 18:31:14 05/10/06 (8)

Re: In a case like yours I would normally advise - morricab 01:30:06 05/11/06 (4)

My half of a clue on the topic restricts me - bjh 04:38:52 05/11/06 (3)

Re: My half of a clue on the topic restricts me - morricab 05:15:58 05/11/06 (2)

No I haven't, but I'd sure like too! - bjh 07:40:09 05/11/06 (0)

Careful, you'll get him going... LOL (nt) - hexenboden 05:19:25 05/11/06 (0)

Your anger - hexenboden 18:42:51 05/10/06 (2)

"anger"? - bjh 19:44:52 05/10/06 (1)

I don't understand... - hexenboden 04:34:32 05/11/06 (0)

Re: Measurements and Listening - Dan Banquer 09:37:11 05/9/06 (3)

Re: Measurements and Listening - Soundmind 11:34:57 05/9/06 (2)

Re: Measurements and Listening - Dan Banquer 12:31:45 05/9/06 (1)

Very interesting - hexenboden 13:16:00 05/9/06 (0)

Your post is excellent - nightdoggy 08:24:20 05/9/06 (1)

"how many people trash the value of measurements because they do not understand them" - hexenboden 13:13:30 05/9/06 (0)

Re: Measurements and Listening - Soundmind 06:29:48 05/9/06 (5)

Yeah, speakers are the final frontier - nightdoggy 08:28:11 05/9/06 (4)

Re: Yeah, speakers are the final frontier - Soundmind 08:32:16 05/9/06 (3)

I don't disagree... - hexenboden 13:11:43 05/9/06 (2)

Re: I don't disagree... - Soundmind 02:48:04 05/10/06 (1)

You can add microphone placement to the confusion (nt) - hexenboden 03:48:59 05/10/06 (0)

Maybe they could hire you as their Measurements Interpreter ... - bjh 04:51:43 05/9/06 (0)

Follow Ups

A 1974 Harman-Kardon Citation 11 - E-Stat 05/11/0616:02:53 05/11/06 (26)

Just wondering. - Bruce Kendall 18:31:56 05/11/06 (0)

Re: A 1974 Harman-Kardon Citation 11 - Soundmind 17:34:31 05/11/06 (24)

I'm shocked!! - E-Stat 17:40:30 05/11/06 (23)

Re: I'm shocked!! - Soundmind 17:52:54 05/11/06 (22)

2 years??!! - Bruce from DC 07:55:18 05/12/06 (12)

Re: 2 years??!! - Soundmind 08:58:41 05/12/06 (11)

Re: "measures flat but doesn't sound flat" - Bruce from DC 15:12:02 05/12/06 (1)

Reproducing sound to be perceived as identical to something else is always subjective, that's what perception means - Soundmind 16:03:52 05/12/06 (0)

Since when did Behringer become an audiophile firm? - E-Stat 14:59:29 05/12/06 (8)

What do you mean "WE" kimosabe? - Soundmind 16:13:26 05/12/06 (7)

Are you kidding? - E-Stat 16:27:15 05/12/06 (6)

Maybe I read your post wrong, looks like you fell off the deep end - Soundmind 17:10:20 05/12/06 (5)

You said you didn't like how they calculated "flat" and blamed audiophiles - E-Stat 17:19:46 05/12/06 (4)

Re: You said you didn't like how they calculated "flat" and blamed audiophiles - Soundmind 17:46:11 05/12/06 (3)

You left out one detail - E-Stat 18:48:02 05/12/06 (2)

Re: You left out one detail - Soundmind 19:27:23 05/12/06 (1)

Yeah, just think how much gear that could have - bjh 14:08:14 05/13/06 (0)

Ok, now I'm relieved - E-Stat 18:23:11 05/11/06 (8)

Re: Ok, now I'm relieved - Soundmind 18:54:00 05/11/06 (7)

Wow! I guess amongst graphic equalizer buffs you must be The Man! :) nt - bjh 19:21:31 05/11/06 (6)

I find them a useful and powerful tool when properly used - Soundmind 23:38:54 05/11/06 (5)

What audiophiles also tend to forget is... - KlausR. 08:51:08 05/12/06 (4)

Re: What audiophiles also tend to forget is... - Soundmind 09:03:33 05/12/06 (3)

Re: What audiophiles also tend to forget is... - Pat D 17:19:00 05/12/06 (2)

Another funny point - Soundmind 18:19:49 05/12/06 (1)

Have to wear the boots again with this one... - E-Stat 18:55:33 05/12/06 (0)