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Critic's Corner Discuss a review. Provide constructive feedback. Talk to the industry. |
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Critic's Corner Discuss a review. Provide constructive feedback. Talk to the industry. |
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In Reply to: Yeah, speakers are the final frontier posted by nightdoggy on May 9, 2006 at 08:28:11:
"I cannot believe how bad some very expensive speakers' crossovers are."Their basic concepts are flawed. They do not propagate sound the way musical instruments do. Comparing one badly flawed design with another is a useless waste of time. The only comparisons which count are against live music. It's a test virtually every one of them I've heard recently would fail. Depressing considering their cost.
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Measurements and Listening - hexenboden 18:58:43 05/8/06 (159)
- So after all this discussion, it still boils down to.... - Soundmind 06:09:36 05/12/06 (0)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:06:29 05/11/06 (0)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - Don C 18:05:01 05/11/06 (0)
- Agreed Hexenboden; measurements in my opinion are invaluable TOOLS - timothywas1@comcast.net 10:56:12 05/11/06 (0)
- Measurements are objective -------- Reviews are just industry cheerleading (Cheerleaders are not Critics) - Richard BassNut Greene 09:50:47 05/11/06 (21)
- Re: Measurements are objective -------- Reviews are just industry cheerleading (Cheerleaders are not Critics) - Jim Austin 04:32:09 05/12/06 (12)
- Stereophile publishes measurements and then tells readers they don't mean much -- the Happy Face reviews live on! - Richard BassNut Greene 08:49:14 05/12/06 (5)
- Stereophile History - John Atkinson 14:07:14 05/16/06 (1)
- Facts can be true and misleading at the same time . Nevertheless, EVERY audiophile should subscribe to STEROPHILE - Richard BassNut Greene 11:07:41 05/18/06 (0)
- Worth pointing out... - Jim Austin 08:58:28 05/12/06 (0)
- There's a wide range of opinion out there... - Jim Austin 08:54:49 05/12/06 (1)
- All audiophiles are subjective -- I'm the most subjective audiophile of all - Richard BassNut Greene 09:47:19 05/12/06 (0)
- It would appears he has little tolerance for dissonance, - bjh 06:52:05 05/12/06 (5)
- Your subject box and the rest of your post are completely uncomprehensible with seven commas in one loooooong sentence ! - Richard BassNut Greene 10:09:18 05/12/06 (4)
- "Your subject box and the rest of your post are completely ..." Why not just "Your entire post is ..."? - bjh 11:04:44 05/12/06 (3)
- That does it -- I'm tired of being called names by bjh and will NOT post here again ! - Richard BassNut Greene 11:19:04 05/12/06 (2)
- Mr. Nut's post creates a rare occurance at CC ... The Wave ... - bjh 11:43:54 05/12/06 (1)
- Did I hear church bells ringing? - markrohr 13:13:02 05/12/06 (0)
- Is it too much to ask - lancelot 15:29:01 05/11/06 (0)
- Re: Measurements are objective -------- Reviews are just industry cheerleading (Cheerleaders are not Critics) - Soundmind 13:46:14 05/11/06 (4)
- Re: Measurements are objective -------- Reviews are just industry cheerleading (Cheerleaders are not Critics) - Grant 16:27:01 05/11/06 (3)
- Actually, I'm thinking seriously of designing and building one - Soundmind 17:25:04 05/11/06 (2)
- Re: Actually, I'm thinking seriously of designing and building one - Grant 20:23:21 05/11/06 (1)
- Re: Actually, I'm thinking seriously of designing and building one - Soundmind 23:33:14 05/11/06 (0)
- Re: Reviews are just industry cheerleading - hexenboden 10:35:32 05/11/06 (1)
- Stereophile's policy on this is very similar to that of the old Stereo Review. - Pat D 10:53:43 05/11/06 (0)
- Come on - Frihed89 21:57:35 05/10/06 (1)
- Frequency response? - hexenboden 04:30:33 05/11/06 (0)
- Measurements Should Complement Listening in Evaluation.... - Todd Krieger 11:24:06 05/10/06 (0)
- Lack of correlation between measurements and listening - KlausR. 05:18:09 05/10/06 (77)
- Re: Lack of correlation between measurements and listening - Soundmind 10:18:43 05/10/06 (76)
- Re: Lack of correlation between measurements and listening - KlausR. 00:08:10 05/11/06 (72)
- Criticizing the critics...and the designers - Soundmind 04:34:31 05/11/06 (71)
- NOBODY listens to loudspeakers in an anechoic chamber - KlausR. 05:37:24 05/11/06 (67)
- Re: NOBODY listens to loudspeakers in an anechoic chamber - Soundmind 06:10:53 05/11/06 (66)
- Re: Polar response - KlausR. 09:12:58 05/11/06 (5)
- Re: Polar response - Soundmind 09:28:06 05/11/06 (4)
- You're welcome but... - KlausR. 09:34:17 05/11/06 (3)
- Re: You're welcome but... - Soundmind 09:47:11 05/11/06 (2)
- Polar response again - KlausR. 10:59:04 05/11/06 (1)
- Re: Polar response again - Soundmind 11:44:13 05/11/06 (0)
- Question - John Atkinson 06:41:16 05/11/06 (59)
- I answered your question, now here's one for you - Soundmind 10:15:50 05/11/06 (34)
- No - John Atkinson 12:02:54 05/11/06 (0)
- Yes, a 5-band graphic equalizer, isn't it? Did you say it was 70's vintage? (sorry, but you've no system listed). nt - bjh 10:53:23 05/11/06 (32)
- Re: Yes, a 5-band graphic equalizer, isn't it? Did you say it was 70's vintage? (sorry, but you've no system listed). nt - Soundmind 13:12:15 05/11/06 (31)
- What preamp has a built-in 5-band equalizer? -t - Bruce Kendall 15:47:16 05/11/06 (27)
- A 1974 Harman-Kardon Citation 11 - E-Stat 16:02:53 05/11/06 (26)
- Just wondering. - Bruce Kendall 18:31:56 05/11/06 (0)
- Re: A 1974 Harman-Kardon Citation 11 - Soundmind 17:34:31 05/11/06 (24)
- I'm shocked!! - E-Stat 17:40:30 05/11/06 (23)
- Re: I'm shocked!! - Soundmind 17:52:54 05/11/06 (22)
- 2 years??!! - Bruce from DC 07:55:18 05/12/06 (12)
- Re: 2 years??!! - Soundmind 08:58:41 05/12/06 (11)
- Re: "measures flat but doesn't sound flat" - Bruce from DC 15:12:02 05/12/06 (1)
- Reproducing sound to be perceived as identical to something else is always subjective, that's what perception means - Soundmind 16:03:52 05/12/06 (0)
- Since when did Behringer become an audiophile firm? - E-Stat 14:59:29 05/12/06 (8)
- What do you mean "WE" kimosabe? - Soundmind 16:13:26 05/12/06 (7)
- Are you kidding? - E-Stat 16:27:15 05/12/06 (6)
- Maybe I read your post wrong, looks like you fell off the deep end - Soundmind 17:10:20 05/12/06 (5)
- You said you didn't like how they calculated "flat" and blamed audiophiles - E-Stat 17:19:46 05/12/06 (4)
- Re: You said you didn't like how they calculated "flat" and blamed audiophiles - Soundmind 17:46:11 05/12/06 (3)
- You left out one detail - E-Stat 18:48:02 05/12/06 (2)
- Re: You left out one detail - Soundmind 19:27:23 05/12/06 (1)
- Yeah, just think how much gear that could have - bjh 14:08:14 05/13/06 (0)
- Ok, now I'm relieved - E-Stat 18:23:11 05/11/06 (8)
- Re: Ok, now I'm relieved - Soundmind 18:54:00 05/11/06 (7)
- Wow! I guess amongst graphic equalizer buffs you must be The Man! :) nt - bjh 19:21:31 05/11/06 (6)
- I find them a useful and powerful tool when properly used - Soundmind 23:38:54 05/11/06 (5)
- What audiophiles also tend to forget is... - KlausR. 08:51:08 05/12/06 (4)
- Re: What audiophiles also tend to forget is... - Soundmind 09:03:33 05/12/06 (3)
- Re: What audiophiles also tend to forget is... - Pat D 17:19:00 05/12/06 (2)
- Another funny point - Soundmind 18:19:49 05/12/06 (1)
- Have to wear the boots again with this one... - E-Stat 18:55:33 05/12/06 (0)
- Did you dispense with the BSR 10 band units? - E-Stat 13:38:38 05/11/06 (2)
- Eureka! I believe you've uncovered a means to clear the Dark Gloomy Cloud hanging over this forum, ... - bjh 13:46:32 05/11/06 (1)
- As an "irrational audiophile", I will likely surprise the hell out of SM - E-Stat 14:33:52 05/11/06 (0)
- Re: Question - RGA 07:36:19 05/11/06 (3)
- "I'm sure he'd be less hostile in person." One would hope. However... - clarkjohnsen 08:47:23 05/11/06 (0)
- "...I think a manufacturer should offer him a job" - bjh 08:35:36 05/11/06 (1)
- I was being genuine... - RGA 08:54:55 05/12/06 (0)
- Re: Question - Soundmind 07:17:13 05/11/06 (19)
- Re: Question - hexenboden 10:48:09 05/11/06 (0)
- Re: Question - Bruce from DC 10:15:08 05/11/06 (0)
- I pick "C" - Pjay 08:36:39 05/11/06 (16)
- Re: I pick "C" - Soundmind 09:12:40 05/11/06 (6)
- Re: I pick "C" - Pjay 11:30:16 05/11/06 (0)
- Have to agree - kerr 10:28:38 05/11/06 (1)
- Re: Have to agree - Soundmind 11:55:47 05/11/06 (0)
- "color television" huh? Tell me, when was the last time you attempted to "walk into" some scene on your TV? nt - bjh 10:07:45 05/11/06 (2)
- Yeah, if he thinks color television problems have been "solved," - Dave Pogue 11:01:16 05/11/06 (0)
- ps. Have you ever noticed that when you walk behind your TV set - bjh 10:44:44 05/11/06 (0)
- Allow me to add a point? - KlausR. 09:00:57 05/11/06 (8)
- Re: Allow me to add a point? - Soundmind 09:21:23 05/11/06 (7)
- Re: And what do you suppose would happen if actual musicians performed in your listening room? - KlausR. 09:40:47 05/11/06 (6)
- Re: And what do you suppose would happen if actual musicians performed in your listening room? - Soundmind 09:51:36 05/11/06 (5)
- Back to mono? (nt) - KlausR. 10:48:30 05/11/06 (4)
- Re: Back to mono? (nt) - Soundmind 11:46:09 05/11/06 (3)
- Use two dozen of my 'stats - E-Stat 14:40:01 05/11/06 (2)
- you won't get much privacy behind those dressing screens. - Soundmind 17:30:39 05/11/06 (1)
- The best doesn't come cheaply -t - E-Stat 18:16:21 05/11/06 (0)
- I beg to disagree - hexenboden 05:04:25 05/11/06 (2)
- Re: I beg to disagree - Soundmind 05:25:19 05/11/06 (1)
- LOL - hexenboden 11:04:59 05/11/06 (0)
- Bugaboo - hexenboden 18:21:00 05/10/06 (0)
- Surprise! - mkuller 12:07:42 05/10/06 (0)
- Would it be too much to ask for - bjh 10:58:15 05/10/06 (0)
- How can you compare published measurements to what you get in the showroom?? - Robert Hamel 19:11:26 05/9/06 (0)
- If you want to try something... - real_jj 14:26:29 05/9/06 (11)
- The point being that *real* ain't necessarilly flat, no? nt - bjh 16:51:54 05/9/06 (10)
- When did I say flat was the objective? nt - hexenboden 18:16:39 05/9/06 (8)
- "When did I say flat was the objective?" If you'd like to get something off your chest go for it! :) nt - bjh 18:59:17 05/9/06 (7)
- OK I'll bite - hexenboden 19:59:20 05/9/06 (6)
- Actually, microphones tend to exhibit a rise in sensitivity at the upper audible frequencies (nt) - Bersani 21:55:56 05/9/06 (5)
- Yes, but concert halls - markrohr 10:14:01 05/10/06 (1)
- Re: Yes, but concert halls - Soundmind 10:56:47 05/10/06 (0)
- Microphone responses can be equalized (nt) - hexenboden 03:46:02 05/10/06 (2)
- Perhaps I misunderstood... - Bersani 12:18:07 05/10/06 (1)
- I meant - hexenboden 18:22:51 05/10/06 (0)
- I hope that isn't the point... - Analog Scott 17:39:41 05/9/06 (0)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - EdM 13:01:21 05/9/06 (25)
- Your memory is too short - Dave Pogue 17:02:01 05/9/06 (0)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - hexenboden 13:19:17 05/9/06 (23)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - morricab 02:37:26 05/10/06 (0)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - bjh 13:51:16 05/9/06 (21)
- Ask and you shall receive ... - old2randr 17:41:49 05/9/06 (20)
- "And you were the one defending subjective testing with no controls :-)" - bjh 18:04:20 05/9/06 (19)
- Well, what was really amusing was that ... - old2randr 19:31:43 05/9/06 (18)
- "and horror of horrror, bass relatively speaking MIA!" ... - bjh 19:50:13 05/9/06 (17)
- Overdamping - hexenboden 20:02:14 05/9/06 (16)
- Hey I had a lookm at the article Dan Banquer mentioned. ... - bjh 14:15:37 05/12/06 (0)
- Overdamping???????????????? - Dan Banquer 16:00:56 05/11/06 (0)
- PSB Stratus Gold-i. Not sure what you mean by "damp bass" but anyway I'd say the Golds have "damn good low bass". IME nt - bjh 20:16:25 05/9/06 (13)
- "Too much" control of the woofer (nt) - hexenboden 03:51:23 05/10/06 (12)
- "Too much" control of any driver may not be... - Ozzie 15:30:46 05/10/06 (0)
- How so? And is that a well known and uncontroversial - bjh 04:15:30 05/10/06 (10)
- Compatibility - hexenboden 17:41:38 05/10/06 (9)
- In a case like yours I would normally advise - bjh 18:31:14 05/10/06 (8)
- Re: In a case like yours I would normally advise - morricab 01:30:06 05/11/06 (4)
- My half of a clue on the topic restricts me - bjh 04:38:52 05/11/06 (3)
- Re: My half of a clue on the topic restricts me - morricab 05:15:58 05/11/06 (2)
- No I haven't, but I'd sure like too! - bjh 07:40:09 05/11/06 (0)
- Careful, you'll get him going... LOL (nt) - hexenboden 05:19:25 05/11/06 (0)
- Your anger - hexenboden 18:42:51 05/10/06 (2)
- "anger"? - bjh 19:44:52 05/10/06 (1)
- I don't understand... - hexenboden 04:34:32 05/11/06 (0)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - Dan Banquer 09:37:11 05/9/06 (3)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - Soundmind 11:34:57 05/9/06 (2)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - Dan Banquer 12:31:45 05/9/06 (1)
- Very interesting - hexenboden 13:16:00 05/9/06 (0)
- Your post is excellent - nightdoggy 08:24:20 05/9/06 (1)
- "how many people trash the value of measurements because they do not understand them" - hexenboden 13:13:30 05/9/06 (0)
- Re: Measurements and Listening - Soundmind 06:29:48 05/9/06 (5)
- Yeah, speakers are the final frontier - nightdoggy 08:28:11 05/9/06 (4)
- Re: Yeah, speakers are the final frontier - Soundmind 05/9/0608:32:16 05/9/06 (3)
- I don't disagree... - hexenboden 13:11:43 05/9/06 (2)
- Re: I don't disagree... - Soundmind 02:48:04 05/10/06 (1)
- You can add microphone placement to the confusion (nt) - hexenboden 03:48:59 05/10/06 (0)
- Maybe they could hire you as their Measurements Interpreter ... - bjh 04:51:43 05/9/06 (0)
Follow Ups
- Re: Yeah, speakers are the final frontier - Soundmind 05/9/0608:32:16 05/9/06 (3)
- I don't disagree... - hexenboden 13:11:43 05/9/06 (2)
- Re: I don't disagree... - Soundmind 02:48:04 05/10/06 (1)
- You can add microphone placement to the confusion (nt) - hexenboden 03:48:59 05/10/06 (0)
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