Way back in November of 1989 (nearly 30 years ago) Stereophile heavily
panned the Waveform Acoustics loudspeaker designed by Paul S. Barton
(PSB Speakers) and built by cabinet maker John Otvos. Reviewer Larry
Archibald said:
> the Waveforms "disappear" the ambience. I suspect it has to do with crossover design...
> That's the not-so-bad part. The really bad sounds came from any records
> that were less than superbly recorded... Yet, for me, hi-fi is about
> enjoying the music you like to listen to, not grimacing at it.
Pretty bad review, eh?
In the "Measurements" section John Atkinson decided the most likely
culprit for the bad sound was the electronic crossover which used
Signetics op-amps:
> Finally, I looked at the Waveform's electronic crossover
> characteristics. The crossover circuitry and all the in/out sockets are
> carried on one large printed-circuit board, with a small transformer
> supplying AC power to a pair of solid-state voltage regulators. All the
> filter circuits are based on Signetic NE5532 dual-op-amp ICs, and the
> response-shaping networks are carried on plug-in DIP headers to allow
> for easy modifications. Good-quality components are used throughout,
> including Bourns pots for the two controls, but the unit as a whole
> would seem a little outclassed by the amplification the Waveform
> speakers are likely to be used with, in my opinion.
> Yes, the sound of a circuit using op-amps will be dependent to a large
> extent on the way in which the designer has implemented the power
> supplies and other ancillary matters, as well as by the characteristics
> of the particular IC used. However, it is fair to point out that the
> 5532 is some 10 years old and there are a number of op-amp ICs now
> available that offer significant improvements in both subjective and
> objective performance. That LA felt the Waveforms to have overall
> rather non-involving nature could well be due to the crossover
> circuitry, I feel.
www.stereophile.com/content/waveform-loudspeaker-measurements
Now, almost 30 years later, JA apologizes for all of the (British! - except for HRT)
companies that still use Signetics op-amps in their design:
In Reply to: RE: There is this: posted by Charles Hansen on October 16, 2017 at 06:49:03:
> Just look at the analog circuitry in any piece of Meridian kit. They still
> use the 30 year old Signetics 5534 op-amp they've been using since they
> were founded.
At the risk of trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, Meridian aren't
alone in still using this chip. It can be found in products from LFD, Musical
Fidelity, Cyrus, and HRT, as well as Meridian. I was told that this is because,
when properly used, this op-amp can drive low-impedance loads with very
low static distortion. Of course, this begs the question of whether an
integrated circuit op-amp, which relies on a high amount of negative
feedback to work, is a justifiable choice to use in a high-end audio circuit.
~~~~~~~~~~
NB: The keen-eyed will note that the first article referenced the Signetics 5532, while the forum posting referenced the Signetics 5534.
What's the difference? Both are in 8-pin packages. The '34 allows the user to trim the DC offset manually, while the '32 omits that feature to allow
two op-amps in one package. The datasheets for both are at www.ti.com and have simplified internal schematics that are virtually identical.
In 2007 a poster on DIY Audio asked if there were any differences. One replied:
"The dual version's paralleled input transistors are both used
by the single version - hence the lower input noise of the single.
"At line level differences are not much, but at lower levels and more
gain, e.g. a MM phono amplifier the single's advantages can be used.
"For active filters, buffers, low gain line stages etc, not much in it.
For audio performance / price nothing gets near them."
(NB: Paralleling identical input transistors will yield an extra 3dB of S/N ratio. Maybe that's why these guys post on DIY forums - they don't really
understand that a phono stage needs a bit more than 3dB less noise than a line stage that typically operates with a 50dB larger signal...)
There you have it - you can get the best performance in the world for only around $0.35 - your choice of single or dual!
Ya gotta love those thrifty Brits! No need to actuallly design any of those pesky circuits - just buy some chips
and stick 'em in a fancy box!
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Topic - What Happened in the Last 30 Years? - Charles Hansen 00:18:33 11/2/17 (167)
- RE: What Happened in the Last 30 Years? - Todd Krieger 02:09:53 11/5/17 (2)
- RE: What Happened in the Last 30 Years? - Charles Hansen 19:51:05 11/5/17 (0)
- RE: The best DAC ever: DPA 1024 Special edition - Eldragon 07:12:58 11/5/17 (0)
- eh? - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 22:38:40 11/2/17 (15)
- Anyone with skin in the game should be allowed certain *indiscretions - Eldragon 09:12:49 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: eh? - Charles Hansen 05:21:22 11/3/17 (1)
- Excellent post.... - musetap 11:59:01 11/4/17 (0)
- Very much agree - BRab 04:53:34 11/3/17 (11)
- So you were just about ready to invest in some Ayre gear but now.... - Ivan303 08:10:03 11/3/17 (10)
- RE: So you were just about ready to invest in some Ayre gear but now.... - BRab 10:16:14 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: So you were just about ready to invest in some Ayre gear but now.... - Eldragon 09:22:54 11/3/17 (8)
- Better hurry... - Ivan303 10:08:47 11/3/17 (7)
- I just bought my Christmas present - 4everyoung 11:14:53 11/3/17 (6)
- RE: I just bought my Christmas present - The Dill 14:33:38 11/3/17 (0)
- I just bought my Christmas present - mkuller 13:40:05 11/3/17 (0)
- Congrats! Surely the best way to avoid the MQA controversy. - Rick W 13:29:55 11/3/17 (2)
- Exactly - 4everyoung 15:31:09 11/3/17 (1)
- Yep, saw that thread on Vinyl. Look forward to your posts about that tt. Happy analog listening. nt - Rick W 16:40:08 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: I just bought my Christmas present - BubbaMike 11:42:18 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: What Happened in the Last 30 Years? - Inmate51 13:42:21 11/2/17 (3)
- RE: What Happened in the Last 30 Years? - b.l.zeebub 15:56:03 11/2/17 (2)
- RE: What Happened in the Last 30 Years? - Inmate51 06:29:30 11/3/17 (1)
- RE: What Happened in the Last 30 Years? - b.l.zeebub 06:52:46 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: What Happened in the Last 30 Years? - A.Wayne 09:19:05 11/2/17 (1)
- RE: What Happened in the Last 30 Years? - Charles Hansen 19:33:26 11/2/17 (0)
- A lot of great vintage gear made before the onslaught of the op-amps NT - 4everyoung 07:32:04 11/2/17 (111)
- Agreed....But I'm told MQA is the way of the future. Robert Harley claims.... - regmac 08:29:58 11/2/17 (110)
- RE: Agreed....But I'm told MQA is the way of the future. Robert Harley claims.... - BubbaMike 15:08:46 11/2/17 (1)
- Crying wolf.... - Doug Schneider 17:53:44 11/2/17 (0)
- Sadly, I believe TAS and Stereophile have sold out to MQA - 4everyoung 14:07:58 11/2/17 (107)
- RE: Keep your hands where I can see them while you take off that tinfoil hat! - Bruce from DC 07:03:35 11/3/17 (65)
- Agree... - mkuller 08:36:13 11/3/17 (40)
- "discovered a revered product or company is not as good as people think" - DAP 11:54:40 11/6/17 (0)
- IMO, All these seem like unsubstantiated guesses. nt - stehno 17:36:07 11/3/17 (38)
- IMO, All these seem like unsubstantiated guesses. - mkuller 22:36:21 11/3/17 (37)
- RE: IMO, All these seem like unsubstantiated guesses. - stehno 13:15:38 11/4/17 (0)
- You never talked to me and I disagree with everything you said and - 4everyoung 07:52:09 11/4/17 (35)
- So please elaborate... - mkuller 10:17:23 11/4/17 (34)
- RE: So please elaborate... - 4everyoung 17:47:00 11/4/17 (33)
- RE: So please elaborate... - Charles Hansen 18:15:55 11/4/17 (32)
- Not trying, but succeeding ... - DAP 09:42:15 11/5/17 (10)
- RE: Not trying, but succeeding ... - Charles Hansen 20:09:11 11/5/17 (9)
- Let's have our hearing tested and see who wins that one - 4everyoung 23:40:10 11/5/17 (3)
- RE: Let's have our hearing tested and see who wins that one - Charles Hansen 08:04:33 11/6/17 (2)
- RE: Let's have our hearing tested and see who wins that one - 4everyoung 11:49:34 11/6/17 (0)
- RE: Website Archives - John Atkinson 10:55:23 11/6/17 (0)
- RE: Am I missing something? - Krav Maga 21:42:14 11/5/17 (2)
- RE: Am I missing something? - Charles Hansen 22:54:58 11/5/17 (1)
- Transhumanism is just as scary - Krav Maga 23:17:42 11/5/17 (0)
- ... don't care about finding the next big thing - DAP 21:08:23 11/5/17 (1)
- RE: ... don't care about finding the next big thing - Charles Hansen 22:23:40 11/5/17 (0)
- RE: So please elaborate... - 4everyoung 19:55:05 11/4/17 (20)
- RE: So please elaborate... - Charles Hansen 20:19:33 11/4/17 (19)
- Guilty of... - Krav Maga 23:20:22 11/4/17 (11)
- RE: Guilty of... - Charles Hansen 00:50:34 11/5/17 (10)
- RE: Guilty of... - Krav Maga 22:15:34 11/5/17 (1)
- Thanks for the link - Charles Hansen 02:01:24 11/6/17 (0)
- Also according to Wired ... - DAP 10:03:38 11/5/17 (6)
- RE: Also according to Wired ... - Krav Maga 14:19:24 11/5/17 (1)
- RE: Also according to Wired ... - regmac 13:14:48 11/6/17 (0)
- RE: Also according to Wired ... - Krav Maga 12:21:31 11/5/17 (3)
- The actual text ... - DAP 14:13:47 11/5/17 (2)
- Things that make you go hmmm - Krav Maga 14:44:17 11/5/17 (1)
- Wikipedia has a fairly good summary - DAP 15:29:50 11/5/17 (0)
- You mean "old men", surely ... - DAP 09:51:03 11/5/17 (0)
- Aargh. Stop digging. nt - Rick W 22:06:11 11/4/17 (6)
- RE: Aargh. Stop digging. nt - Charles Hansen 00:54:45 11/5/17 (5)
- You asked for it. - Rick W 09:16:44 11/5/17 (4)
- Thanks so much for your support - 4everyoung 23:50:39 11/5/17 (1)
- Keep on keepin' on. nt - Rick W 09:40:47 11/6/17 (0)
- Thanks very much! - Charles Hansen 21:13:47 11/5/17 (0)
- Totally agree (nt) - DAP 14:59:35 11/5/17 (0)
- RE: Keep your hands where I can see them while you take off that tinfoil hat! - regmac 07:28:39 11/3/17 (22)
- RE: Keep your hands where I can see them while you take off that tinfoil hat! - Charles Hansen 07:34:26 11/3/17 (21)
- Obviously you have a character flaw that prevents you from recognizing that JA is never wrong. - Rick W 12:27:29 11/4/17 (0)
- What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - stehno 17:57:17 11/3/17 (18)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - ornery 07:19:25 11/4/17 (9)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - John Atkinson 08:53:33 11/4/17 (8)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - Dale Clark 05:21:06 11/5/17 (0)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - ornery 17:59:58 11/4/17 (6)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - John Atkinson 04:18:28 11/5/17 (2)
- People quote the value and results of DBTs - E-Stat 13:02:30 11/6/17 (0)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - ornery 05:41:48 11/5/17 (0)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - Charles Hansen 18:35:21 11/4/17 (2)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - ornery 19:49:03 11/4/17 (1)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - Charles Hansen 20:12:35 11/4/17 (0)
- RE: What might be a mistake to you could be a way of life for Atkinson, et al - John Atkinson 04:43:09 11/4/17 (7)
- Speculating? Hardly. Here's my 3rd attempt to get your response to your listening experiences.... - stehno 15:22:23 11/4/17 (6)
- RE: Speculating? Hardly. Here's my 3rd attempt to get your response to your listening experiences.... - John Atkinson 15:46:53 11/4/17 (5)
- RE: Speculating? Hardly. Here's my 3rd attempt to get your response to your listening experiences.... - The Dill 17:22:45 11/4/17 (4)
- RE: Speculating? Hardly. Here's my 3rd attempt to get your response to your listening experiences.... - John Atkinson 04:26:39 11/5/17 (3)
- What in the world are you talking about? - stehno 12:03:41 11/6/17 (2)
- RE: What in the world are you talking about? - John Atkinson 16:54:07 11/6/17 (1)
- Dude, you obviously have no shame. nt - stehno 20:06:30 11/7/17 (0)
- RE: Keep your hands where I can see them while you take off that tinfoil hat! - standingstones 12:25:51 11/3/17 (0)
- Great post! +1 (nt) - Charles Hansen 07:05:47 11/3/17 (0)
- HEY! How Do I Get on this "MQA Gravy Train"????? - John Marks 17:44:49 11/2/17 (3)
- Great to hear from you John nt - Jim Austin 18:14:34 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: Here - Eldragon 12:11:32 11/3/17 (0)
- Didn't you request that I unfriend you? NT - 4everyoung 19:05:28 11/2/17 (0)
- Really? - John Atkinson 16:07:03 11/2/17 (36)
- RE: Really - 4everyoung 18:43:48 11/2/17 (35)
- RE: Really - John Atkinson 04:20:26 11/3/17 (34)
- RE: Really - Dale Clark 06:50:32 11/3/17 (2)
- Please remember - Jim Austin 18:13:28 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: Really - Charles Hansen 07:27:41 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: Really - 4everyoung 05:31:47 11/3/17 (2)
- RE: Really - Charles Hansen 05:43:57 11/3/17 (1)
- RE: Really - 4everyoung 16:05:40 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: Really - Charles Hansen 05:27:43 11/3/17 (27)
- RE: Really - John Atkinson 08:27:59 11/3/17 (26)
- RE: Really? Ya' know, John, a lot of people reading this must think ... - stehno 13:23:47 11/4/17 (0)
- RE: Really - Krav Maga 17:18:15 11/3/17 (0)
- Those are your conclusions? - Doug Schneider 11:07:57 11/3/17 (22)
- Thanks for your editorials on SS - Beetlemania 11:38:39 11/3/17 (19)
- RE: Thanks for your editorials on SS - Doug Schneider 11:55:37 11/3/17 (18)
- RE: Thanks for your editorials on SS - Jim Austin 14:27:46 11/3/17 (17)
- RE: Thanks for your editorials on SS - Doug Schneider 15:04:52 11/3/17 (8)
- RE: Thanks for your editorials on SS - Jim Austin 17:15:06 11/3/17 (7)
- Explaining away... - Doug Schneider 17:32:33 11/3/17 (6)
- You're not disagreeing with Jim Austin's point, though, are you? - DAP 18:46:00 11/3/17 (3)
- RE: The site doesn't target audiophiles at all. - Krav Maga 19:17:45 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: You're not disagreeing with Jim Austin's point, though, are you? - Doug Schneider 19:17:23 11/3/17 (1)
- Is Stereophile really this obtuse when it comes to audible performance? - stehno 13:04:55 11/4/17 (0)
- Sorry? - Jim Austin 18:09:03 11/3/17 (1)
- RE: Sorry? - Doug Schneider 19:15:58 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: Thanks for your editorials on SS - Charles Hansen 15:01:59 11/3/17 (7)
- RE: Thanks for your editorials on SS - Doug Schneider 15:06:37 11/3/17 (6)
- I've heard things you people wouldn't believe. - Krav Maga 21:57:45 11/3/17 (5)
- Can't view your post - Charles Hansen 18:47:19 11/4/17 (4)
- RE: Can't view your post - Krav Maga 22:45:10 11/4/17 (3)
- Thanks! - Charles Hansen 01:14:19 11/5/17 (2)
- RE: Thanks! - Krav Maga 09:59:54 11/5/17 (1)
- OMG! - Charles Hansen 01:15:19 11/8/17 (0)
- RE: Those are your conclusions? - John Atkinson 11:35:38 11/3/17 (1)
- RE: Those are your conclusions? - Doug Schneider 11:47:31 11/3/17 (0)
- RE: Really - used-hifi 10:09:30 11/3/17 (0)
- NB: The 5534 is also externally compensated... - Steve O 06:18:15 11/2/17 (26)
- RE: NB: The 5534 is also externally compensated... - Charles Hansen 19:26:07 11/2/17 (25)
- Oh ye of little faith... - Steve O 22:06:01 11/2/17 (24)
- RE: Oh ye of little faith... - Charles Hansen 05:39:07 11/3/17 (23)
- RE: Oh ye of little faith... - Steve O 15:14:32 11/3/17 (22)
- RE: Oh ye of little faith... - Mel 07:48:00 11/4/17 (16)
- Pretty much already happening... - Ivan303 08:40:25 11/4/17 (12)
- RE: Pretty much already happening... - Charles Hansen 18:58:41 11/4/17 (11)
- RE: Pretty much already happening... - Mel 05:20:10 11/5/17 (6)
- RE: Pretty much already happening... - Charles Hansen 23:20:40 11/6/17 (5)
- RE: Pretty much already happening... - Mel 08:47:31 11/7/17 (4)
- RE: Pretty much already happening... - Charles Hansen 02:09:00 11/8/17 (2)
- RE: Pretty much already happening... - Mel 06:04:09 11/8/17 (1)
- RE: Pretty much already happening... - Charles Hansen 21:02:32 11/8/17 (0)
- RE: Pretty much already happening... - BubbaMike 10:13:05 11/7/17 (0)
- Sorry, I don't remember enough about electronics to begin to be dangerous... - Ivan303 20:36:09 11/4/17 (3)
- Nice post - Charles Hansen 21:02:43 11/4/17 (0)
- "And I know that feedback steals the soul from the music"... - Steve O 20:54:34 11/4/17 (1)
- RE: "And I know that feedback steals the soul from the music"... - Charles Hansen 21:12:54 11/4/17 (0)
- But of course!... - Steve O 07:56:55 11/4/17 (2)
- RE: I guess you're not acquainted with what's really going on today. nt - Mel 08:38:27 11/4/17 (1)
- Of course I am (nt) - Steve O 09:09:00 11/4/17 (0)
- RE: Oh ye of little faith... - Charles Hansen 21:09:41 11/3/17 (4)
- RE: Oh ye of little faith... - J. Phelan 14:30:43 11/4/17 (1)
- RE: Oh ye of little faith... - Charles Hansen 19:03:06 11/4/17 (0)
- Superb post...NT - regmac 22:00:13 11/3/17 (1)
- Agreed! - Ivan303 08:12:23 11/4/17 (0)
- The lower end Oppo players - E-Stat 05:36:23 11/2/17 (2)
- RE: The lower end Oppo players - Charles Hansen 19:24:19 11/2/17 (1)
- RE: The lower end Oppo players - SoundMann 10:11:45 11/24/17 (0)