In Reply to: Re: High end audio = a field where people can claim to have exceptional skills and never have to prove it ! That's rar posted by John Atkinson on April 26, 2006 at 14:41:21:
You must enjoy wasting your time in blind tests, or are you implying that the blind tests you participate in use the "proper methodology" and are valid?But then you reverse yourself by bragging about positive results in some blind tests. So now are you implying that when you have positive results, the tests were done properly and you deserve accolades ... while the null results were from poorly managed tests ... or don't matter?
So I guess your conclusion is blind tests can't be trusted ... unless you are there to see they are done correctly ... and you have positive results.
Not that your positive results mean much in relation to the products tested in Stereophile: We already knew loudspeakers and cartridges are likely to have audible differences ... and sometimes tube amps may have small audible differences. That's been done before. And your claimed results were no surprise. Of course we really don't know if your test results were very decisive ... or just better than random guessing -- we only know you claimed to "pass the tests", but for some reason you didn't mention your scores.
Now what about all those null results you gloss over?
Are you going to claim they are meaningless?
In fact they are important as a psychological test to demonstrate a listener bias toward claiming to hear differences among components.How often were you confident you heard differences in the sighted warm-up auditions only to find out that minutes later you really heard no differences when the brand names were hidden.
I'll answer the question for you because I assume you'll ignore it: -- In the sighted warm-up auditions most blind test participants thought they heard differences (as in almost all sighted auditions) ... so the fact that they could not hear differences minutes later under blind conditions strongly suggests the "audible" differences were nothing but their imaginations (expectations).
The "imagined differences" hypothesis is easily tested by allowing audiophiles to compare a component with itself under "blind conditions", while allowing them assume there are two components.
The result will typically be "differences heard" in 50% to 75% of the "A-A" comparisons.
Knowing the brand of component being heard adds no value to a description of the sound quality. That knowledge can only bias the listener.
Comparing two components playing at different SPL's can not add value to a description of sound quality differences ... not to mention comparing two components heard in different rooms.
I know you or your reviewers will never risk demonstrating to witnesses the claimed ability to be able to hear differences among all audio components ... even though doing this would boost subscriptions and make you world famous as a real "proven" golden ear.
Of course I should mention it's quite rare for people to be known for having exceptional skills, yet they have never proven or demonstrated their skills to others. High end audio is very unusual in that regard. Most public "experts" want to prove their skills or knowledge to others. If not, can we have confidence they are anything but self-proclaimed experts?
I do enjoy your "verbal tapdancing" to explain why blind auditions are no good ... while you participate in over 100 of them ... and brag about the few "positives".The staff of Stereophile claims to have excellent hearing ability.
No one can prove it, or will try (at least not in "public").
Even those who do try will dismiss most of their results as "nulls" ... yet will never discuss why sighted comparisons almost never have "nulls", even the sighted warm-up auditions minutes before a blind test!
Why do all stereo components sound different?
Stereophile answer: Because we say so ... and we could prove it ... but no test is good enough ... unless we participate and have positive results ... which happened a few times, mainly for speakers and cartridges that we already knew were likely to sound different!
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Follow Ups
- It took you over 100 blind tests to come to the conclusion that blind tests are a waste of time? - Richard BassNut Greene 04/28/0608:02:47 04/28/06 (21)
- Ouch! - Ozzie 09:42:56 04/29/06 (0)
- Please answer the question, Mr. Greene - John Atkinson 07:19:57 04/29/06 (13)
- I answered your question in my May 1 post & answered every other question you asked in this post - Richard BassNut Greene 09:16:49 05/2/06 (4)
- Patience, please, Mr Greene - John Atkinson 16:51:32 05/2/06 (3)
- Waiting for YOUR answers to MY questions does require patience --- Infinite Patience is required (you don't respond) - Richard BassNut Greene 07:54:30 05/3/06 (2)
- Why infinite? - John Atkinson 09:14:11 05/3/06 (1)
- I swear I did not ghostwrite the JA post as a perfect example of what "non-answer" means! - Richard BassNut Greene 08:54:02 05/5/06 (0)
- reference - Ozzie 09:46:03 04/29/06 (7)
- Even evidence disappears in the face of disbelieve. - bjh 14:54:18 04/29/06 (1)
- Obviously you care. - Ozzie 15:47:00 05/1/06 (0)
- More uncritical thinking - John Atkinson 11:17:11 04/29/06 (4)
- I am not a magazine writer... - Ozzie 16:19:00 05/1/06 (3)
- We're all plowing the same furrow, Ozzie - John Atkinson 16:41:39 05/2/06 (2)
- JA now says Stereophile reviewers do not have superior hearing ("Neither do we claim we have superior hearing, Ozzie") - Richard BassNut Greene 08:59:14 05/3/06 (1)
- BassNut - Ozzie 13:37:45 05/3/06 (0)
- If you want to know which tests were well designed, surely the ones with the null result were well done - Soundmind 10:36:52 04/28/06 (2)
- Why take tests when you can claim exceptional hearing ability & your readers and advertisers will never ask for proof ? - Richard BassNut Greene 13:45:44 04/28/06 (1)
- You have to take the "sucker factor" into account - Soundmind 14:06:20 04/28/06 (0)
- Re: It took you over 100 blind tests to come to the conclusion that blind tests are a waste of time? - John Atkinson 08:47:36 04/28/06 (2)
- Where are the "null results" for sighted auditions? Why do all components sound different ONLY when brands are known? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:16:10 05/3/06 (0)
- We are all very fortunate.... - Soundmind 14:26:56 04/28/06 (0)