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Critic's Corner Discuss a review. Provide constructive feedback. Talk to the industry. |
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Critic's Corner Discuss a review. Provide constructive feedback. Talk to the industry. |
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In Reply to: Short term memory is the first to go . . . posted by Pat D on April 26, 2006 at 13:24:19:
Pat D you state: We've been through this before.I do indeed remember some of our past go-arounds. Before we start up this DBT conversation again I'd like to remind you that being that I AM disabled, at that time I was taking 8Mg Dilaudid (which is approx 4X stronger than Morphine) 6X a day for pain and Soma for a muscle relaxer 3X a day. I say this not for sympathy but rather because I went back and re-read posts I made back then. I found that many of them rambled and some were quite difficult to follow. Heck they didn't even make much sense to me. In addition they created mood swings, which I am ashamed to say made some of posts nasty in nature.
These days I have voluntarily reduced the strength of the narcotics I take to 30Mg of Oxycodone, which is still quite strong. It's equal to taking 6 Percodans 6X a day and the Soma. This has done great things for increasing my cognisense. Furthermore I now type first my responses in Notepad and then re-read them an hour or so later. Then I make any needed corrections and post the response. This should now result in responses that are easier for all to understand.
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Pat you say that first (I) fought against blind tests, then said (I'd) accept them.Rather than defend anything I've said in the past allow me to state how I feel these days. To begin I don't use DBTs, instead I trust in my ear's ability to discern what sounds the most realistic. These in turn are the components I choose to purchase when the time comes. IMHO proponents of DBT are either: A) people who don't trust in their ear's ability to discern what sounds the most realistic and thus need to use DBTs to help them choose components or B) people who have poor hearing and CANNOT hear differences in components. Then later when they hear subjectivists stating they can hear differences, they want to prove to everyone (especially themselves) they're correct in these beliefs via DBTs!
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Pat you continue by stating: (I) wanted (you) to take a trip to Florida to witness (me)do an invalid, uncontrolled blind test.First I wanted you to come to Orlando, Florida for one very simple reason--that's where my system is located. If I'm going to take a DBT I'll only do so with MY system which I am intimately famliar with. Why? Because IMHO only a fool would take a DBT with a system they were not intimately familair with. I NEVER claimed hearing all differences are easy. So if you want me to accept your challenge of proving I can hear differences in audio components I'll only do a DBT with my system which I am intimately famliar with. This would require your coming to Orlando, Fla. At least if you wanted proof of the DBT it would.
As far as invalid or uncontrolled I'm not sure I agree. What I proposed was that ANY one component either the integrated amp, CD player, speakers, interconnects or wires be changed. I stated that in doing this I would (most likely with close to 100% accuracy) tell when the component has been changed. I could either be blindfolded or we could setup an acoustically, but not visually transparent screen. As I would be unable to see what component was changed nor would I be able to see the person doing the changes as they be behind the screen or I'd be blindfolded, they'd be unable to give me any clues as to the changes made, if any. Furthermore "if" the person making the changes was a proponent of DBTs (like yourself) they certainly wouldn't be trying to help me discern anything.
IMHO using any switching boxes or other added wires or components IMMEDIATELY nullifies the test as they add a host a variables to the system that didn't previously exist. They would also add their own characteristic sound to what now becomes a completely new system that didn't previously exist and with which I am NOT intimately familiar. So I don't see how it could be done except as how I proposed.
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Pat you claim we were talking about wires and I changed the ground to different types of tubes--something whose audibility you have no opinion about.First without seeing EVERY post we made back and forth concerning DBTs. I'll have to just take your word that this statement you made is the truth and not taken out of the context of our many previous posts. As I believe EVERY component has it's own characteristic sound (caps, inductors, tubes, wires, amps etc) what would it matter if it was wires, tubes or any other component being compared? Or are you saying that wires cannot sound different, but tubes might? If you think tubes might, then wouldn't the amplifiers that use them also sound different? Doesn't that then support subjectivist claims of amps sounding different? Further if you have no opinion about a tube's audibility, is wires the only component you require DBTs with?
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Pat continues with.... Some time ago, Richard invited people to do blind tests on wires, IIRC. But be careful there, because both he and the participant would put up money, with the results of the audition determining who would get it. He had some other conditions, I think, too, and also, he would insist on proper controls. So you would lose your money, is my prediction.It was probably Richards "conditions" and what he considered "proper controls" in and of themselves that kept people from accepting his supposed challenge! Given my "conditions" and "proper controls" stated above I wouldn't lose my money at all, Richard would!
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Nobody wanted to take him up on it, the last I knew, not even JR, and I've heard nothing on it for quite some time, so maybe he isn't still offering.Pat typically I find that proponents of DBTs have "conditions" and "proper controls" that IMHO render the DBT as unacceptable. A couple of these things would be switching boxes and additional wires. I find their version as unacceptable as you find mine.
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Norm Strong once put up a more modest challenge in the past, but no takers, IIRC.I have no idea what Norms more modest challenge was or what IIRC means.
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Pat you claim that I am not, in fact, interested in doing blind tests, or I would have done them. That's true to an extent. My ONLY interest in DBTs is proving I can hear differences to the naysaying objectivists who are constantly keeping the waters mudded instead of allowing any audio tranquility here at AA. It's also true that Richard is not a necessary part of a DBT. I suppose I could find someone local competent to administer a controlled blind test? But what has that to do with you and Richards claims?You Pat, feel that a local DBT won't do for me. When the reality is it won't do for you, Richard and the other objectivsists! I wanted you, Pat or Richard here so you couldn't doubt the outcome, If I was to say for example that I have indeed already done DBTs and passed with 100% accuracy you wouldn't believe me anyway. You'd demand proof, so you or Richard should come down so I can give it to you. Again I accept the challenge, so proponents of DBTs should put up or shut up.
Finally I will also qualify that IMHO the order of my ability of discerning differences is not the same as some reviewers claim. For me, from easiest to hardest I can hear differences in: 1) Speakers, 2) Preamps 3) Amps/Integrated Amps, 4) CD Players, 5) Interconnects/Speakerwire and lastly 6) Powercords. Also for me number 1) Speakers are almost impossible to miss and at the end 6) Powercords I struggle with hearing differences "if" I hear any at all. There is a 7th catagory I'd mention called tubes. This is a difficult catagory to place as these range from 1) being almost impossible, like speakers not to hear the differences in to 6) being like powercords where I struggle to hear a difference. It often depends on the type of tube and the manufactuer.
This is my point-of-view on DBTs Pat. We don't have to and probably never will agree about DBTs and whether or not they're of any merit.
To me the ONLY purpose they serve is to prove to objectivists that differences can be heard by subjectvists. Other than that I see no use for them.Thetubeguy1954
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Music NEVER makes you sick, but noise ALWAYS annoys!
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Follow Ups
- No... Meds Affected My Posts - thetubeguy1954 04/27/0610:36:50 04/27/06 (2)
- Re: No... Meds Affected My Posts - Pat D 17:32:43 04/27/06 (1)
- Re: No... Meds Affected My Posts - thetubeguy1954 10:16:08 04/28/06 (0)
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