but I never you said the Reiner had zero spacial cues, did I? So many straw men thrown at me,

Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - LtMandella 17:31:03 08/29/20 (124)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - sser2 00:39:28 09/6/20 (2)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - LtMandella 16:54:31 09/6/20 (0)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - pbarach 05:10:11 09/6/20 (0)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - alc777 10:13:51 09/2/20 (9)

Man! I'd forgotten that Tjeknavorian recording! [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 12:50:06 09/2/20 (6)

Isn't that an immediate eye-catching cover design? :) - alc777 19:51:12 09/2/20 (5)

Yes - always was! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 18:16:03 09/3/20 (4)

I bought when released. The best part for me was lapping up all the Digital hoopla on back cover. Nt - jdaniel@jps.net 18:50:55 09/3/20 (3)

RE: I bought when released. The best part for me was lapping up all the Digital hoopla on back cover. Nt - alc777 20:39:09 09/3/20 (2)

B&W speakers - pbarach 04:40:40 09/4/20 (1)

Now that is a certified audiophile! :) / nt - alc777 06:01:04 09/4/20 (0)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - LtMandella 10:46:28 09/2/20 (1)

You're welcome. - alc777 20:21:36 09/2/20 (0)

I also like the Maazel/Cleve. Scheherazade, but...... - Rick W 10:21:14 08/31/20 (1)

RE: I also like the Maazel/Cleve. Scheherazade, but...... - LtMandella 10:23:46 08/31/20 (0)

I see a lot of love for the Beechem - Analog Scott 10:54:34 08/30/20 (80)

RE: I see a lot of love for the Beechem - kuma 18:43:40 08/30/20 (6)

Somehow Jane Russell to me does NOT.... - TWB 12:53:41 08/31/20 (3)

No! No! You both have it wrong! - Chris from Lafayette 16:38:27 08/31/20 (2)

Why in the world would you want a second rate version.... - TWB 23:04:53 08/31/20 (0)

Here's the most accurate visual analogy, Reiner vs Beecham, as recorded - jdaniel@jps.net 17:24:50 08/31/20 (0)

That's an interesting visual analogy - Analog Scott 22:07:12 08/30/20 (0)

RE: :-) /n - Ivan303 20:12:47 08/30/20 (0)

Do you recall where the alleged "heavy-handed" rubato is located that the Brit Critics raved about? - jdaniel@jps.net 15:12:11 08/30/20 (0)

I agree with you, Scott - Chris from Lafayette 11:29:20 08/30/20 (71)

Compared to the screwbato we're often subjected to today, I don't find Beecham's to sound unnatural at all - jdaniel@jps.net 12:58:13 08/30/20 (70)

"The soundstage just doesn't seem to open up" [in the Reiner recording] - Chris from Lafayette 15:02:33 08/30/20 (69)

No, fact. The Beecham recording projects a much more natural, open sound, with hall interaction preserved. nt - jdaniel@jps.net 15:13:52 08/30/20 (68)

Sound is subjective - jimbill 22:04:47 09/1/20 (2)

That's why I said **more** open and natural as opposed to **perfectly** open and natural. - jdaniel@jps.net 07:27:20 09/2/20 (1)

Your own live listening experiences in which halls? [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 12:48:16 09/2/20 (0)

A fact? How can that possibly be a fact? - Analog Scott 01:06:21 08/31/20 (63)

Because unlike you two., I was doing A/B comparisons in real time. Nt - jdaniel@jps.net 10:56:58 08/31/20 (62)

Please tell us about this Star Trek transporter of yours - Analog Scott 11:59:26 08/31/20 (56)

Why don't you hold that thought until you reacquaint yourself with the Beecham? The HDTT transfer is - jdaniel@jps.net 12:41:56 08/31/20 (55)

Doesn't matter - Analog Scott 16:03:48 08/31/20 (54)

And...your experience playing in Wind Ensembles and Orchestras is...? - jdaniel@jps.net 16:50:58 08/31/20 (53)

OK, jdaniel - you'll have to explain this - Chris from Lafayette 22:49:17 08/31/20 (22)

It's absolutely valid to ask a presumed audiophile couch commando whether he expects, say, a triple-forte - jdaniel@jps.net 09:27:46 09/1/20 (21)

Nice side-step there, jdaniel - Chris from Lafayette 13:01:40 09/1/20 (20)

What does one do when performing or sitting in on live rehearsals? - jdaniel@jps.net 13:15:50 09/1/20 (19)

So you're claiming that the only way one will pay attention. . . - Chris from Lafayette 16:40:06 09/1/20 (18)

Just a point of clarification... - Analog Scott 20:18:30 09/1/20 (13)

So you're saying it's odd to expect a recording to preserve a hall's reflection of, say, a rim-shot? - jdaniel@jps.net 07:31:46 09/2/20 (7)

Do you actually read my posts or do you just drop in random responses? - Analog Scott 08:17:11 09/2/20 (6)

I read all the way through your tortured soliloquy, down to the final, indignant paragraphs, obviously. - jdaniel@jps.net 08:33:50 09/2/20 (5)

Based on your question it was pretty far from obvious - Analog Scott 09:25:07 09/2/20 (4)

Aural Illusions... I get it. But does it matter how the brain is tricked? - jdaniel@jps.net 09:47:37 09/2/20 (3)

What "matters" is subjective - Analog Scott 10:11:23 09/2/20 (2)

Ultimately, you're saying that "downstream" empirical measurements of any sort are off the table? T - jdaniel@jps.net 10:26:12 09/2/20 (1)

Nope, not what I am saying either - Analog Scott 12:33:42 09/2/20 (0)

Yeah - we've had this discussion before [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 01:10:53 09/2/20 (4)

Do you believe it's "fact" that 5 Channel is more open and natural, dare I say "closer to the live experience" - jdaniel@jps.net 07:45:46 09/2/20 (3)

For me it is, but for many listeners, it's obviously not - Chris from Lafayette 12:46:40 09/2/20 (2)

OK then, the superiority of Chabrier in three channel is a matter of opinion. : ) nt - jdaniel@jps.net 12:58:08 09/2/20 (1)

Indeed! [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 15:42:45 09/2/20 (0)

Did I say that? It is but one way, and, for the umteenth time, I also mentioned sitting-in on rehearsals, and - jdaniel@jps.net 17:31:04 09/1/20 (3)

So. . . I just don't know what your point is. . . - Chris from Lafayette 17:47:09 09/1/20 (2)

You win. Hurwitz prefers the Reiner, BUT, in another vid, he comes dangerously close - jdaniel@jps.net 18:02:21 09/1/20 (1)

Indeed, just as you don't actively DISlike the Reiner recording. . . - Chris from Lafayette 01:21:12 09/2/20 (0)

My experience, your experience. None of it matters - Analog Scott 18:20:33 08/31/20 (29)

Says the guy with no experience. (sigh). I refer you to my visual above. nt - jdaniel@jps.net 18:43:58 08/31/20 (28)

First of all I have plenty of experience..Second Your experience does not trump an entire field of science - Analog Scott 19:58:39 08/31/20 (27)

You're making this too difficult. Spacial cues are either retained or they're not. nt - jdaniel@jps.net 09:29:56 09/1/20 (26)

That's complete Bull**** - Analog Scott 19:19:45 09/1/20 (14)

I was mocking your Absolutism earlier. Calm down! Damn. nt - jdaniel@jps.net 19:32:07 09/1/20 (13)

It wasn't absolutism. It was science based reality - Analog Scott 20:25:11 09/1/20 (12)

All fine and dandy, but I never said the Reiner had zero spacial cues, did I? So many straw men thrown at me, - jdaniel@jps.net 21:33:39 09/1/20 (11)

but I never you said the Reiner had zero spacial cues, did I? So many straw men thrown at me, - Analog Scott 09/1/2022:48:04 09/1/20 (10)

I said it was a fact that the Beecham was **more** open and natural, not **perfectly** open and natural - jdaniel@jps.net 07:44:17 09/2/20 (7)

Yes that is what you said. and the fact remains that it is not "a fact" - Analog Scott 08:25:22 09/2/20 (6)

Come on. Is it not a fact that stereo is more open and natural than mono, due to the increased projection of - jdaniel@jps.net 08:44:04 09/2/20 (5)

First we would have to reach a common understanding of what you mean by open. - Analog Scott 09:35:55 09/2/20 (4)

We all agree that 60s Columbia Classical sound is, as a rule, not "open." - jdaniel@jps.net 09:54:44 09/2/20 (3)

first of all you can't just declare a consensus - Analog Scott 12:42:54 09/2/20 (2)

I believe that most in here of a certain age have heard the same 30 to 50 "reference" recordings, they've - jdaniel@jps.net 13:31:30 09/2/20 (1)

I don't doubt your confidence that you beleive others know what you are talking about - Analog Scott 15:29:43 09/2/20 (0)

Yup - that's where I kind of lost it! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 01:23:29 09/2/20 (1)

(the thread of jdaniel's comments I mean!) [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 01:28:23 09/2/20 (0)

Or, you could say that spatial cues are either heard or they're not - Chris from Lafayette 13:12:14 09/1/20 (10)

That's what I was saying all along. What two chan recordings give you that holistic, "you are there" thrill - jdaniel@jps.net 14:14:15 09/1/20 (3)

OK - I'm done [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 16:45:09 09/1/20 (2)

You once mentioned there'd be a lot less confusion if everyone listed recordings that exemplified the poesy - jdaniel@jps.net 17:38:52 09/1/20 (1)

I'm not sure what you mean by "the other way around". . . - Chris from Lafayette 01:17:53 09/2/20 (0)

RE: Or, you could say that spatial cues are either heard or they're not - pbarach 13:48:22 09/1/20 (5)

Yes - in that Stokowski recording. . . - Chris from Lafayette 16:43:14 09/1/20 (4)

Sorry guys, there's absolutely zero. More like listening to a Kandinsky painting. Plus, even the harp - jdaniel@jps.net 17:34:19 09/1/20 (3)

Well, regardless, I think we're all agreed as to how poorly the engineering turned out [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 01:25:59 09/2/20 (2)

"Poor engineering...." Fact or opinion? : ) nt - jdaniel@jps.net 09:23:17 09/2/20 (1)

Opinion, with factual, measurable elements to it [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 12:52:30 09/2/20 (0)

If you were (doing A/B comparisons in real time). . . - Chris from Lafayette 11:41:43 08/31/20 (4)

The Beecham isn't perfect, but it's more open and natural with a palpable sense of hall - jdaniel@jps.net 12:39:46 08/31/20 (3)

It all depends on which hall (or studio) - Chris from Lafayette 16:30:47 08/31/20 (2)

Did you download the Beecham? nt - jdaniel@jps.net 16:51:39 08/31/20 (1)

Download? What a quaint notion! - It streams on Qobuz! - Chris from Lafayette 22:41:14 08/31/20 (0)

I'm sure the Beecham recording is very fine in that respect - Chris from Lafayette 18:22:01 08/30/20 (0)

Listened the the Reiner with open ears for years. I just don't get the hoopla - jdaniel@jps.net 08:20:39 08/30/20 (10)

RE: Listened the the Reiner with open ears for years. I just don't get the hoopla - LtMandella 08:47:11 08/30/20 (9)

Sexism! Sexism! Who will defend women telling stories? [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 11:35:19 08/30/20 (8)

She kinda had no choice. Nt - jdaniel@jps.net 12:47:05 08/30/20 (7)

Yeah, but she got emotional about it! Sexism! Sexism! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 15:04:42 08/30/20 (6)

RE: Yeah, but she got emotional about it! Sexism! Sexism! [nt] ;-) - LtMandella 10:27:48 08/31/20 (1)

Well, as you may know, I'm always on the lookout for sexism on this board! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 11:33:31 08/31/20 (0)

But if she wasn't more compelling and emotional than Reiner's musicians, then she'd be executed. nt - jdaniel@jps.net 15:15:39 08/30/20 (3)

Touche - but still sexist! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 18:24:29 08/30/20 (2)

No, the poor harlot was being paid, so to speak, to emote. nt - jdaniel@jps.net 17:57:18 08/31/20 (1)

Harlot? Even more sexist! [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 22:42:46 08/31/20 (0)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - B. Scarpia 04:50:29 08/30/20 (0)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - flyingdutchman 00:51:23 08/30/20 (10)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - pbarach 10:23:43 08/30/20 (9)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - fstein 14:47:39 08/30/20 (1)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - pbarach 15:10:33 08/30/20 (0)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - rivervalley817 10:50:43 08/30/20 (6)

One thing Living Stereos were NOT is multi-microphoned - Chris from Lafayette 11:15:29 08/30/20 (1)

RE: One thing Living Stereos were NOT is multi-microphoned - rivervalley817 14:33:38 08/30/20 (0)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - pbarach 11:01:15 08/30/20 (3)

RE: Living Stereo Reiner Scheherezade - rivervalley817 11:31:07 08/30/20 (2)

Do you have an online streaming service? Maybe you could check them that way [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 11:37:35 08/30/20 (1)

RE: Do you have an online streaming service? Maybe you could check them that way [nt] - rivervalley817 11:54:42 08/30/20 (0)

If you listen to that Reiner recording over headphones. . . - Chris from Lafayette 19:42:24 08/29/20 (1)

I have two stand out performances of that Rimsky piece... - TWB 00:39:00 08/30/20 (0)

I have not kept up with new releases, but, back in the day - John Marks 18:09:07 08/29/20 (2)

I hated the Gergiev from the first note. (NT) - Kal Rubinson 14:46:26 08/30/20 (1)

Those Gergiev Philips recordings were mostly engineered poorly IMHO. . . - Chris from Lafayette 15:12:08 08/30/20 (0)

Follow Ups

but I never you said the Reiner had zero spacial cues, did I? So many straw men thrown at me, - Analog Scott 09/1/2022:48:04 09/1/20 (10)

I said it was a fact that the Beecham was **more** open and natural, not **perfectly** open and natural - jdaniel@jps.net 07:44:17 09/2/20 (7)

Yes that is what you said. and the fact remains that it is not "a fact" - Analog Scott 08:25:22 09/2/20 (6)

Come on. Is it not a fact that stereo is more open and natural than mono, due to the increased projection of - jdaniel@jps.net 08:44:04 09/2/20 (5)

First we would have to reach a common understanding of what you mean by open. - Analog Scott 09:35:55 09/2/20 (4)

We all agree that 60s Columbia Classical sound is, as a rule, not "open." - jdaniel@jps.net 09:54:44 09/2/20 (3)

first of all you can't just declare a consensus - Analog Scott 12:42:54 09/2/20 (2)

I believe that most in here of a certain age have heard the same 30 to 50 "reference" recordings, they've - jdaniel@jps.net 13:31:30 09/2/20 (1)

I don't doubt your confidence that you beleive others know what you are talking about - Analog Scott 15:29:43 09/2/20 (0)

Yup - that's where I kind of lost it! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 01:23:29 09/2/20 (1)

(the thread of jdaniel's comments I mean!) [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 01:28:23 09/2/20 (0)

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