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These experiments started about one month ago when I made a power cord intended to have low capacitance to ground following a suggestion by Steve Eddy on the Tweaks asylum. (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/32190.html). The cord is basically a twisted pair of 12 gauge conductors, with a safety ground conductor passing in and out between the hot/neutral conductors in a sinusoid with a about 1” average separation between itself and the twisted pair hot neutral. I was simply stunned by the improvement in my system. Amazing transients and definition. However, this cord, when done in black, white and green has the lowest WAF of any component in any system anywhere, save Magneplanar Tympani speakers. Since then I have continued fiddling with power cords and have improved upon the recipe and compared it to the highly regarded Bob Crump power cord recipe.Now, what I am striving for in my system is the most accurate reproduction of whatever signal is on the record (or CD). I want to hear every last detail that is there, even if it is 40 db below the average listening level, even if it is harsh sounding. A cable can add nothing to the reproduced sound, only degrade it. I want the signal degraded as little as possible. Any time I make a cable, what I am listening for is twofold: 1) is the spectral balance pleasing, not emphasizing one part of the audio spectrum or slighting another? 2) do I hear things I have never heard before on pieces I am very familiar with? Two yes answers and that new cable is an improvement.
My first thought to improve the sinusoidal cord was to lower its inductance by using a braided construction with a separated ground wire. Further, to help keep capacitance to ground and dielectric absorption low I wanted a teflon insulation for the conductors. This meant I had to settle for a plated copper conductor, either tin, nickle or silver. I chose silver. I also wanted to measure whatever I built against the Crump cord as what I mainly want is the best DIY cord I can muster. Who invented it is of no concern to me, only what it sounds like. So, I ordered a 10’ Volex cord and 200’ of 16 AWG teflon insulated silver plated copper 19 strand hookup wire, Belden 83001. 16 AWG was chosen with the braided geometry in mind, as three strands of it for each conductor lead to an 11 AWG conductor which is at the limits of what you can stuff into a Schurter 4300.0603 IEC.
Here are the first cords I made and listened to:
(all used Schurter 4300.0603 and P&S 5266-X connectors)
1) “the sinusoid” 12 AWG vinyl insulated machine tool wire, twisted pair of conductors, safety ground threaded in and out between the hot/neutral twist.
2) a cat5 like cord made by first making three twisted pairs, then braiding and separating these a’la Chris VH speaker cables. A safety ground is them made by twisting three wires together and spiraling it loosely around the braid. This is an 11 Awg cable made from the teflon insulated wire.
3) the Bob Crump recipe with Belden 19364 from the Volex cord. This is a 14 AWG cord and vinyl insulated with a shield.
All listening tests were done changing only the cord to my power amplifier, which, in my system, is the most sensitive component to power cords. I first listened to the Volex cord which is a great improvement over the stock cords from my system (18 AWG vinyl insulated). I had plenty of experience with the sinusoid , so I started doing A/B comparisons with the Crump and braided cords. My first reaction to the braided cord was this is a “slight” improvement. Better definition in the highs than the sinusoid, but not a big improvement. First reaction to the Crump cord was “Wow, that sounds great!” Second reaction was “It sounds great, but it doesn’t sound right”. After many quick changes between the braided and Crump cords (done by having both cords plugged into outlet box and quickly unplugging one and plugging other in at back of amp, while the music continued to play, very often backing up and listening to the same passage three or four times with each) I knew that I preferred the braid and why. The Crump cord rolls off the highs so that transients, the hard attack on most notes, etc. were not as well defined with the Crump cord. Still, it rolls off the highs in such a graceful manner it is a very pleasing cord to the ears. Anyone who listens mainly to rock or vocals may prefer it. I, on the other hand, listen mostly to classical and have a real thing for explosive violin concertos, big symphonies, etc. The braided cord is simply more detailed in the richness and HARSHNESS of violins in the upper frequencies, the attack of the notes from harpsicords, triangles, cymbals, etc.After giving much thought to what I was hearing, I decided that the flat braided geometry allows too much capacitance between conductors by bring much of the surface areas of the individual hot/neutral wires closer to the ground conductor than they would be if they were simply in a circular geometry. Teflon insulators overcome this to a certain extent. The next obvious thing to try was a star quad geometry for the hot/neutral and a safety ground spiraled around it. Four strands were spiraled together clockwise using an electric drill. A single pair was twisted counter clockwise also using the drill. This was then spiraled counterclockwise around the quad. This cord is the clear winner. It has all the richness of the Crump recipe plus spectacular transients. Overall size is 13 AWG.
In order to decide which power cord was best in my system, I had to go through my entire library picking out different passages of solo instruments in different frequency bands, find particular harpsichord selections, bells, cymbal crashes, sudden tympany rolls, etc. Clearly, this kind of effort means that the differences were VERY subtle and any non-audiophile would say they all sound alike. The non-audiophile is pretty close to right. Once your system utilizes a power cord that is faster than the transformer in your power supply and has low enough capacitance to ground that there is no limitation to the current it can deliver at high frequencies, that’s as good as you are ever going to do, no matter what power cord tweaks you try thereafter. Your system is limited by the ability of the amplifiers power supply to deliver the current the rest of the amp is calling for. Period. Seven pounds of silver will look better on your wife and sound every bit as good.
Finally, the Crump recipe is very easy to make and has a rich, lush musical quality to it. To my ears, those words are synonymous to having a gradual increase in its attenuation as frequency increases. You may prefer it’s “ musical” qualities. I prefer what I believe to be the more accurate qualities of the star quad which allows the power supply to keep up with the signal. When we come to the bottom line, we are asking “do you want walnuts or pecans in your chocolate chip cookies?” Once you have a GOOD power cord in your system, one which can keep up with your power supply, aren’t further attempts to improve your power cord “much ado about nothing?”
Follow Ups:
After going through dozens of commercial and DIY designs, if I've learned one thing, it's that there is no one best cord for each given component. One cord will be "right" for one component but wrong for another. The whole trick is to find the cord that synergizes with each given equipment in given system context. It's a lot of work.
I disagree, If the Manufacurer was doing his job, he has already selected the best power cord for the amplifier.If the best cord does not come with the amp, how can you trust the rest of the design. I would certainly question the rest of the design if he can't select a simple wire.
If the stupid wire to the wall is wrong, I would start over and design the thing from scratch!
Let's not be too oversimplistic about things.Many high end power amp amnufacturers admit that they do not include a high ticket power cord for the very reason that each person, and each system has differing requirements. They include a generic cord of adequate quality to allow the amp to function, and to pass UL. Period.
If they included a power cord that cost THEM $500 to include (or whatever cost), and the customer would prefer yet a a different cord, they have made that customer pay the extra $500 for no good reason.
Some power amps do come with a slightly up-scale cord, and this is to try and assure a certain minimum level of decent performance, so the sound of the amp is not signnificantly compromised.
Other components are in the same boat, why risk offending a customer with the worng choice in power cords, when the good ones cost a bit more than the $10 a basic 12 ga. OEM cord costs.
Jon Risch
For those trying to do similar...
Belden P/N for 19x36 16 AWG hook up wire is 83010, not 83001.
nt
Nice observations... I'd like to suggest that many of the characteristics you point out are:
#1 System dependent#2 Personal Taste
Making broad generalizations about how a cable will make a system sound I think is dangerous waters... I always have people asking me "Is cable 'A' better than cable 'B'???" There just isn't an answer to this especially if the individual doesn't know what they want. It is good to see that you are willing to do the work and decide what you find is important to YOU, not others.
Break-in is more than running current through the cable.... I'll let Bob elaborate if he so desires.
For light or normal duty use, simply use some Kimber 4PR and run a seperate 16 gauge wire "loosely spiraled" around it for ground. The ground cable is spiraled just enough to keep it from laying in a straight line or "hanging" away from the rest of the conductors. This gives you a 14 gauge cable that works quite well for preamps, sources, etc..For devices that pull more current (amps, etc..) or a long run, do the same with Kimber 8PR and a seperate ground wire. This gives you about 11 gauge and should be suitable for just about anything up to about 15 amps.
Cosmetically, this cable does not look bad at all. Should you choose to do so, it can also be covered with "snakeskin" over the entire length. On top of this, you might want to use shrink wrap covering the ends as they enter the IEC & wall plug. This will give it the "professional" look. I would also make use of good quality IEC's and wall plugs since your going through the hassle of building them in the first place. Why waste time with inferior products or designs ?
You can "fine tune" things by playing with additional capacitance INSIDE the IEC connector IF done carefully. Make sure that the caps are rated for WELL above line voltage. Realistically speaking, 250 volt pieces work fine. If you want to get "fancy" with teflon jacketing, you can use Kimber 8TC or 4TC in place of the 8PR or 4PR. This is strictly "overkill" in my book though.
These designs are quite flexible, offer excellent RFI properties and minimizes magnetic fields without the need for fancy shielding. Should you feel the need for shielding, i would "float" the braid or foil at the component / IEC end and connect it ONLY at the wall plug side of the cord.
Like most of the power cord designs that have surfaced here, these were derived from information presented by the knowledgable minds and skillful hands of Mr. Crump and Mr. Risch. We are lucky to have people like them that are willing to share. Sean
>
you suggest using kimber 4pr. What about using kimber ring main cable
which has a lot of strands and is designed for mains power, and adapting it for a mains lead? its only 6 or 12 pounds per foot?
thanks
My system wouldn't be nearly as good without them. Good suggestions. Hopefully I'll find the energy to try them also. Not sure I agree with you about the connectors yet but will try some more expensive ones in the future. I think grip strength and material will dominate the sound produced by the connectors. The male IEC's on my equipment appear to be nickle plated and the 4300.0603 at least lets me control the tightness of the grip. Not sure how much having a material other than brass will matter, particularly if I can do nothing about how tightly it grips.
My comments about using "good quality" connectors was simply directed towards the areas that you addressed. That is, look for something that has maximum surface area, very tight and solid connection and is constructed using decent quality materials with safety and reliability in mind. I'm not suggesting that one use "the most expensive" parts by any means. I meant ( but did not say ) the parts that offer the most bang for the buck. Like you and most other DIY'ers, I'm trying to maximize performance while minimizing expenditures. As such, the Pass & Seymour's, etc.. being discussed here are probably about the best that we are going to do. Sean
>
I'm a fan of the quad braid. I like to use 1 hot, 1 neutral, and 2 ground. I use a different design. Try this... Lets call each cable 1,2,3,4. You hot will be 1 and your neutral will be 4.Instructions:
Take wire 2 and cross it over wire 3. Move both 2 and 3 to the outside crossing over 1 and 4 to become the new outside wires. Now take 1 and cross it over 4. Move both 1 and 4 to the outside crossing over 2 and 3. Continue this design for the rest of the cable. Pull the cable so it forms a tight braid. Wire the cable to the ac connector and iec. Make sure that both ground wires are wired at both ends.
This design in my opinion provides not only the braided benefits, but also the dual coaxial benefits.
I would be interested in your results.
Alan Maher
Perfect Cable
nt
I tried describing it in writing too! Didn't work for me either.We definitely need some pictures! (:
It seems to me that Blue Circle is doing the same braid already.
I didn't invent it. I just copied Kimber's Hero cable. I liked the dual wires for signal and ground. With Homegrown Audio silver and copper wire, I made some nice sounding cables. I'm still experimenting. Kimber mentions a different four wire braid that I'd like to figure out. I can do the 6, 8, etc braids but man they are a pain! I'm also intrigued by ChrisVH's design. I may try that in the future as well.
Hello from NYC :-)I have been using the 4 wire braid for about 3 years in my commercial designs for both power and speaker. I just started building them using 6N silver for my audiophile customers.
I'm going to have a 4 wire design with pictures on my new web site after I get home (the diy cord will be available Aug 1). It will be using mil spec high temp 16ga Belden wiring.
Alan Maher
Perfect Cable
Actually, I've got a set of DIY Crump cords, and two 12' sections of Belden 83802 that I haven't figured out what to do with, and a whole 'nother design that Jon Risch suggested to me. All of this is begging for some type of comparison.I suppose I'll try Chris V's "Flavor#2" PC, your Cat5 cable, and the Crump fora shoot out. Even though my cd player doesn't have an IEC, it uses a 3-prong computer plug internally. So, If I leave the cover off, it's fairly easy to swap cords.
I really like your description of the Crump cord "sound". My cd player has a fair share of edge, and adding the Crump cord really settled things down a bit - for the positive. I liken the Crump Cord's effect to being similar to Jon Risch's Belden 89259 IC's - "a rich, lush musical quality". At present, that's exactly what I need until I can get a new player.
Is it odd that a bunch of grown men spend days of their free time playing with wire?
go straight to the quad star. make sure the safety ground is LOOSELY spiraled around the star quad. a little slack lets it stand away from the H/N when flexed.As for the activities of grown men....... well, it keeps us out of the bars.
Don't bother? what kind of advice is that?! I've found cat5 AC cords (when soldered at both ends and not having a ground within the twisted pairs) to be a damn effective ac cord, high L/N capacitance, for noise filtration effects, low ass inductance, and teflon, as well as lowered resistance through semi-litz config. Careful with advice, some find effective solutions with any materials, I like to think I am one of those who do.
I said cat5 TYPE, meaning braided; not enough better than the sinusoid in anything I heard to bother with the extra effort.
braiding goes easily if you leave the jackets on, a virtual necessity for safety sake. You still get most of the benefit in a power cord, where the extra dielectric doesn't matter. Everything is worth trying, my point is what didn't work for you could well work for others. Did you solder the cat5 or use compression terminals? Compression terminals really compromise the solid wires connection.
NOT NOT NOT using cat5 wire!!!! I am using teflon hookup wire, first made into twisted pairs which are then braided and separated into + and - in the same way as the cat 5 speaker cable is constructed. 6wires, 3tp's, 1 braid. 3 wires to line. 3 wires to neutral. A separate safety ground. still does not sound enough better than the simple TP plus ground to be worth the additional effort.
fine, you don't feel that there are significant enough benefits. fine. that is IN YOUR SYSTEM. My system is very power sensitive, and I find improvements in AC cable design to be a worthwhile point of research, and properly arranged twisted braided pairs is better than paralell conductors in my system. Just don't poo-poo something until you've had enough play with it to really write about results in general, not just in the context of your system.
with MY criteria for judgement, with MY selection of passages to judge, with MY decision that cables are sufficiently broken in to start judging,......now lighten up, were just having fun here!Best
Roger Hill
Sorry if it was over the top, it was 5:00 AM and I'd been partying since about 2 PM! Great to be done with exams!!! Didn't mean to yell, just to point out that personal system matching is very important, some things work for some people (sorbothane) and are terrible in other systems. And I know, the differences are minor indeed, but I've found power cords to be a very good "tuning tool" stranded parallel cords like the Asylum cable are usually warmer sounding, twisted pairs/braids sound faster/brighter, shielding schemes don't have too much effect (negative anyway) in my system, but my outlet is wired with BX, so I've already got high capacitance to ground. Enjoy your play, and I'll be less drunk and more gentle next time. Pretty sad when a guy comes back from heavy partying and goes straight to the cable asylum..............
nada
I'll need to scrounge up 10-12 ft. more 12 GA, teflon insulated, wire before making the Quads. In the mean time, I'll try replacing the hardwired Crump for my CD with a teflon twisted pair.I've also got an extra set of JR 89259 IC's since I went from seperates to a Complete Integrated, I think I'll strip both sets and make a single twisted pair for the Ultimate Risch IC's.
Wait until my girlfriend gets a load of my plans for the weekend, she's gonna love it!
What are you talking about? Maybe it's you whos the lunatic..... no daddy, not the 12 awg solid braid! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! ;-)
Roger,
Sounds like you are one step closer to audio nirvana. I know I break into cold sweats whenever I listen to my reference system. Have to comb the hairs on the back of neck back down each time.Your findings are not surprising. You can apply all of your learnings about good speaker cable design directly to power cords, although power cords are a bit more forgiving. Separating the hot and neutral will increase inductance. Conductor size will affect transient curerent response jsut like a speaker cable. I personally feel that it is a bit of overkill to use teflon insulation for power cords, but it certainly can't hurt. Just remember, there is just ROMEX in the walls, and hopefully not too much of it.
Yup, I hate the Ghenghis Khan too! Ridiculous to use anything overspecified in power cords. Good connections to the terminals are the only reason to use a silver cord, and then only when not soldering. I find differences in AC cabling to be significant, but only within a reasonable context. They can be engineered around desirable effects, but essentially, after a point it's all the same. Big conductors, good connectors and connections to them, and a shield or braid are about as much as you need, beyond that you tart throwing money at your system, when you could throw some books in your brain instead, and make a real difference. And Romex makes a decent power cord, I've even made them with BX! Got rid of the armored cable fast as hell though, the armor loves to scrape insulation!
Which cable did you use for the Star Quad version?
the 16 AWG teflon stuff?Is it only the capacitance from H and N to GND that is a concern?
What about capacitance between H and N? Would thicker insulation
or a spacer help reduce this?Maybe using a larger gauge wire in a simple twisted pair rather
than quad would reduce capacitance but keep current handling
capability.Have you tried using copper braid for a gnd/shield in any
experiments?
Used the 16AWG teflon for the star quad. High capacitance from H to N is a good thing, tending to keep equal and opposite charge densities (and currents) at all points along the H and N, which should reduce losses to ground. The sinusoid is a simple twisted pair and I suspect that made with teflon wire it would become better still. Only shielded PC I have used is the Crump recipe. I believe the shield will tend to increase the capacitance to ground and cause a little of the roll-off. But, please remember, we are talking about VERY slight changes that only the most anal compulsive nitpicker like me will detect. I don't believe the shield will make much difference unless your electromagnetic environment is terribly cluttered with noise from motors, rf, etc.
How much and what type of cable break-in was done before your listening?Did you solder your quad and Crump cables?
nt
nt
ran every cord through a garage heater for half a day. 11 amps. couldn't tell any difference on any cable. sinusoids broken-in just by listening in system. still listening and can't discern any breaking-in effect.
Teflon requires at least 60 hours to fully break in. I find greater improvements on a smaller scale up to 120 hours.
Alan Maher
Perfect Cable
Break-in is rough on power cords.......I would be interested in Roger's thoughts on the various designs after thirty days of break-in, but imagine the star quad will better the rest of the designs.....A few hours on a garage heater doesn't get you very far in the break in cycle, but at least they were all treated the same......My commercial cords sound pretty much like death for five days and an example of this surfaced recently as a customer ordered a couple through one of my dealers and received them on a Monday.....He called me Friday night saying that the cords just were not working for him as such and such cord just blew them away......I told him to listen for another day and on Sunday he ordered three more and has since ordered another three more as I recall.....The point is that power cords change big time in the first five days and they all take 30-45 days to really sing.....Until the cords are all cooked I don't think anything definitive can be gleened from Roger's research into power cords other than to say that such and such design works better than the others with a few hours of break-in.......
Bob:I'm retired and system is on any time I am at home. Probably 20-30 hours on each cable since the garage heater treatment. Not fully broken-in by your experience, but I haven't heard any changes since I put them in. Maybe 59 year old ears have something to do with that. Your points are well taken and I am continuing to listen to both. Thanks for all your contributions of your knowledge.
Roger Hill
Hi Roger,How's the fishing?
Interesting Post. I was exhausted just reading all the plugging and unplugging you must have done.
nt
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