In Reply to: Very interesting posted by E-Stat on October 31, 2008 at 14:22:40:
You need to read the quote carefully. My statement presumes flat response and very low distortion in both units, which is not always true because sometimes response errors are deliberately built into high-end units to make them sound different -- or so it seems. At any rate the errors are there.
But assuming the conditions are met in the system -- and I only say that to make sure some badly designed preamp isn't loading down one of the players and changing the response -- then the statement holds, yes. If the distortion is low and the response is flat for both players, there will be no audible difference in the blind test. The fancy components, the arcane decoding schemes, or any of the rest of it -- all inaudible when you're not peeking. The "resolution" of the system has nothing to do with it.
As with other claims of this type, this one is backed up by lots of negative results in careful testing. Positive results in open testing don't disprove it, but a single positive result in a level-controlled blind test would, especially if it could be duplicated elsewhere, but pretty much even if not. There would be a real flurry of people trying to do the same thing.
You may think that this is just proof that I don't know anything and/or can't hear anything, but think for a moment about what a splash it would make, and how easy it should be according to your point of view, for any of the high-end journalists who write about this stuff to just do the test and pass it, once and for all. Not one of them has ever done so, despite having all the best equipment and instrumentation and time in the world. Why do you suppose that is? They've cut down acres of trees to print elaborate justifications for why they shouldn't have to do it. Why, if it's so easy?
Of course, they used to argue about power amps too. I did a double-blind test of two amplifiers and passed it easily with pink noise or music (it was written up in Sound & Vision and is on their web site). That was kind of a special case, because the speaker had a weird impedance curve that produced widely differing response curves in a tube vs. a solid-state amp. So the explanation for that turned out to be simple and any reasonably experienced listener (including the owner of the speakers in question) could pass that one. But I digress. -- E. Brad
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Follow Ups
- RE: That clears up a lot! - EBradMeyer 10/31/0818:06:30 10/31/08 (50)
- As I said - E-Stat 18:32:48 10/31/08 (49)
- I applaud your remarcable restraint. You're not diplomat, by any chance? N/T - carcass93 20:34:36 10/31/08 (48)
- Not really much to say about the post - kerr 05:30:28 11/2/08 (47)
- "...response errors are deliberately built into high-end units" - when I see something like that,... - carcass93 06:44:40 11/2/08 (46)
- You'll note too - E-Stat 14:25:09 11/2/08 (1)
- RE: You'll note too - kerr 05:03:42 11/3/08 (0)
- One example... - andy_c 09:20:00 11/2/08 (34)
- The Redbook CD standard itself is a response error - E-Stat 14:09:19 11/2/08 (33)
- RE: The Redbook CD standard itself is a response error - andy_c 16:45:06 11/2/08 (32)
- RE: The Redbook CD standard itself is a response error - Tony Lauck 19:46:44 11/2/08 (30)
- RE: The Redbook CD standard itself is a response error - andy_c 20:25:44 11/2/08 (29)
- RE: The Redbook CD standard itself is a response error - Tony Lauck 20:44:12 11/2/08 (28)
- RE: The Redbook CD standard itself is a response error - andy_c 09:08:33 11/3/08 (27)
- Since you never answered my original question - E-Stat 11:16:50 11/3/08 (8)
- RE: Since you never answered my original question - andy_c 11:49:32 11/3/08 (7)
- RE: Since you never answered my original question - Tony Lauck 13:15:15 11/3/08 (6)
- RE: Since you never answered my original question - andy_c 13:33:48 11/3/08 (5)
- RE: Since you never answered my original question - Tony Lauck 14:14:12 11/3/08 (4)
- Nulls on consecutive upsampling/downsampling - andy_c 14:31:04 11/3/08 (3)
- RE: Nulls on consecutive upsampling/downsampling - Tony Lauck 15:33:41 11/3/08 (2)
- Oppenheim & Shafer prob. and my notes - andy_c 07:28:30 11/4/08 (1)
- RE: Oppenheim & Shafer prob. and my notes - Tony Lauck 14:48:31 11/4/08 (0)
- RE: The Redbook CD standard itself is a response error - Tony Lauck 10:20:01 11/3/08 (17)
- No use - E-Stat 12:56:06 11/3/08 (16)
- RE: No use - andy_c 13:09:51 11/3/08 (15)
- Preferences - Tony Lauck 13:57:12 11/3/08 (0)
- Which is exactly my point - E-Stat 13:25:30 11/3/08 (13)
- RE: Which is exactly my point - andy_c 13:52:32 11/3/08 (12)
- Now it is you - E-Stat 14:03:39 11/3/08 (11)
- Ah - but what I'm saying is... - andy_c 14:13:58 11/3/08 (10)
- Is there any part - E-Stat 06:45:33 11/11/08 (4)
- RE: Is there any part - andy_c 08:52:58 11/11/08 (3)
- RE: Is there any part - Tony Lauck 13:41:21 11/11/08 (1)
- RE: Is there any part - andy_c 15:07:43 11/11/08 (0)
- Good - E-Stat 09:35:09 11/11/08 (0)
- Optimizing the position of the deck chairs - Tony Lauck 14:32:44 11/3/08 (3)
- Good luck convincing BM of that ! - E-Stat 15:13:06 11/3/08 (1)
- RE: Good luck convincing BM of that ! - Tony Lauck 15:45:22 11/3/08 (0)
- Exactly! - LOL! (nt) - andy_c 14:35:54 11/3/08 (0)
- Your *opinion* is so noted - E-Stat 14:22:21 11/3/08 (0)
- I love the "now and for all" fallacy - E-Stat 18:22:22 11/2/08 (0)
- I don't see that as a huge stretch - kerr 07:19:25 11/2/08 (8)
- RE: If you truly believe you aren't missing anything with cheap electronics, you aren't. - rick_m 08:16:45 11/2/08 (7)
- RE: If you truly believe you aren't missing anything with cheap electronics, you aren't. - kerr 09:02:27 11/2/08 (6)
- RE: If you truly believe you aren't missing anything with cheap electronics, you aren't. - rick_m 12:03:22 11/2/08 (5)
- RE: If you truly believe you aren't missing anything with cheap electronics, you aren't. - kerr 05:00:08 11/3/08 (4)
- I see the truth! - rick_m 08:36:24 11/3/08 (3)
- My experience... - kerr 09:51:20 11/3/08 (2)
- RE: My experience... - rick_m 10:15:04 11/3/08 (1)
- RE: My experience... - kerr 04:47:49 11/4/08 (0)