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In Reply to: Falling into the trap posted by Tony Lauck on July 26, 2008 at 06:18:32:
This post was forwarded to me -- maybe Tony did that, as a courtesy -- but I don't have a lot to say about it as it's just Tony's story of what happened to him.
I don't think much good comes from labeling people as subjectivist or objectivist, as the labels are too confining and don't allow for the complexity of people's attitudes and beliefs.
I have found a difference, in my involvement in audio over the last fifty years, in the way people react to the experience of taking controlled tests. Some react negatively to the demands of the test and tend to conclude that their perceptions are being compromised, while others regard the test as a valid reflection of auditory reality, and therefore a way to discover things about the way preconceptions and feelings influence perception.
To try to persuade a person with one response to have the other one instead is about like trying to convince someone they really do like some food, just because you do.
In the meantime, having known Tony since we were young, I have tremendous respect for his intelligence and perspicacity. -- EBM
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Carver's Sonic Hologram Generator - thetubeguy1954 13:41:13 07/21/08 (190)
- I don't think an analog filter could have done that... - lelandaudio 04:07:29 08/18/08 (0)
- I bought a Carver's Sonic Hologram Generator for $50 played with it one week and sold it for $150 - Richard BassNut Greene 08:50:45 07/22/08 (1)
- YOU $&%*!! YOU TRIPLED THE PRICE ON ME?!?! - Presto 14:34:24 07/22/08 (0)
- Hologram Generators, tube distortion generators, high capacitance cables, groove echo - AJinFLA 03:53:24 07/22/08 (101)
- Mr. Audiophile, what do you use? - Sordidman 15:45:10 07/25/08 (2)
- Physics/Psychoacoustics/No sales targets (nt) - AJinFLA 04:17:12 07/26/08 (1)
- That was funny... - Sordidman 10:17:59 07/28/08 (0)
- At least things like - rp1@surfnetusa.com 14:14:13 07/22/08 (81)
- Mostly agreed. However, I have yet to find an algorithm that does pleasing distortion like a soft clipping tube will. - Ugly 16:49:20 07/26/08 (79)
- RE: Mostly agreed. However, I have yet to find an algorithm that does pleasing distortion like a soft clipping tube will - morricab 07:41:47 08/7/08 (1)
- Yes this is what I meant by "soft clipping" thanks for clarifying. - Ugly 13:43:13 08/7/08 (0)
- Tubes - Donald North 17:46:47 07/30/08 (25)
- RE: Tubes - Ugly 21:52:52 08/6/08 (23)
- RE: Tubes - morricab 07:26:22 08/7/08 (22)
- RE: Tubes - Tony Lauck 08:09:33 08/8/08 (1)
- RE: Tubes - Ugly 10:46:35 08/8/08 (0)
- RE: Tubes - Ugly 13:37:23 08/7/08 (19)
- RE: Tubes - morricab 16:00:35 08/7/08 (18)
- Precisely. - Ugly 16:53:24 08/7/08 (17)
- RE: Precisely. - morricab 08:00:24 08/8/08 (15)
- RE: Precisely. - Ugly 11:07:21 08/8/08 (14)
- RE: Precisely. - morricab 02:24:34 08/9/08 (13)
- "What is audible and what is not is the debate." Agreed. I wish I had a formula for my situation. - Ugly 10:58:03 08/9/08 (12)
- RE: "What is audible and what is not is the debate." Agreed. I wish I had a formula for my situation. - morricab 15:03:31 08/10/08 (11)
- RE: "What is audible and what is not is the debate." Agreed. I wish I had a formula for my situation. - Ugly 21:31:34 08/11/08 (10)
- RE: "What is audible and what is not is the debate." Agreed. I wish I had a formula for my situation. - morricab 04:22:27 08/12/08 (9)
- RE: "Remember the negative correlation..." - rick_m 07:39:37 08/12/08 (8)
- RE: "Remember the negative correlation..." - morricab 09:05:59 08/12/08 (7)
- RE: "Remember the negative correlation..." - rick_m 10:06:36 08/12/08 (6)
- RE: "Remember the negative correlation..." - morricab 08:03:49 08/13/08 (5)
- RE: "Remember the negative correlation..." - rick_m 09:36:07 08/13/08 (4)
- RE: "Remember the negative correlation..." - morricab 02:44:38 08/14/08 (3)
- RE: "Remember the negative correlation..." - rick_m 08:47:45 08/14/08 (2)
- RE: "Remember the negative correlation..." - morricab 00:56:14 08/15/08 (1)
- RE: "Remember the negative correlation..." - rick_m 09:40:05 08/15/08 (0)
- RE: Precisely. - morricab 07:57:23 08/8/08 (0)
- RE: Tubes - theaudiohobby 08:02:45 07/31/08 (0)
- RE: Mostly agreed. However, I have yet to find an algorithm that does pleasing distortion like a soft clipping - morricab 13:48:48 07/28/08 (48)
- That makes sense to me. - rick_m 07:43:26 07/29/08 (31)
- RE: That makes sense to me. - morricab 05:34:53 07/30/08 (0)
- "It's driven by the notion that tube-lovers are seeking euphonic distortion." - AJinFLA 09:29:13 07/29/08 (29)
- RE: "It's driven by the notion that tube-lovers are seeking euphonic distortion." - morricab 05:36:39 07/30/08 (0)
- RE: "It's driven by the notion that tube-lovers are seeking euphonic distortion." - rick_m 12:08:55 07/29/08 (27)
- RE: "It's driven by the notion that tube-lovers are seeking euphonic distortion." - AJinFLA 14:52:33 07/29/08 (26)
- RE: Building speakers - rick_m 16:44:59 07/29/08 (25)
- RE: Building speakers - AJinFLA 04:00:04 07/31/08 (24)
- RE: CNC shops. - rick_m 07:31:00 07/31/08 (23)
- RE: CNC shops. - AJinFLA 14:35:24 07/31/08 (22)
- RE: CNC shops. - rick_m 15:59:57 07/31/08 (21)
- RE: CNC shops. - AJinFLA 16:38:30 07/31/08 (20)
- That was the "baffle step" alright. - rick_m 20:05:23 07/31/08 (19)
- RE: That was the "baffle step" alright. - AJinFLA 16:43:15 08/1/08 (18)
- Are you refering to a speaker? - rick_m 18:35:14 08/1/08 (17)
- RE: Are you refering to a speaker? - AJinFLA 16:56:40 08/3/08 (16)
- OMG! You guys argue on multiple fora. - rick_m 19:22:12 08/3/08 (15)
- Argue? How does one argue with an "inmate"? You just give medicine/treatment and watch them flail about - AJinFLA 03:57:49 08/4/08 (5)
- RE: Reflections - rick_m 08:44:37 08/4/08 (4)
- RE: Reflections - AJinFLA 15:28:43 08/4/08 (3)
- You've lost me. - rick_m 17:30:14 08/4/08 (2)
- RE: You've lost me. - AJinFLA 03:50:46 08/5/08 (1)
- Now I understand, but... - rick_m 08:18:41 08/5/08 (0)
- RE: OMG! You guys argue on multiple fora. - morricab 02:08:41 08/4/08 (8)
- RE: Foam speaker wall. - rick_m 08:48:06 08/4/08 (6)
- RE: Foam speaker wall. - morricab 02:14:12 08/5/08 (1)
- That makes sense. - rick_m 08:30:05 08/5/08 (0)
- Or an even more amusing question. Got measurements? (: (nt) - AJinFLA 09:47:08 08/4/08 (3)
- Sure I do...Troll - morricab 02:11:26 08/5/08 (2)
- I meant during waking hours, not dream time (nt) - AJinFLA 03:35:58 08/5/08 (1)
- Troll...you are the only one here who is dreaming - morricab 02:30:03 08/6/08 (0)
- "That's why the speakers I designed..." - AJinFLA 04:10:41 08/4/08 (0)
- Hey chemist, what evidence do you have that you can hear better than anyone else? - AJinFLA 03:48:51 07/29/08 (1)
- RE: Hey chemist, what evidence do you have that you can hear better than anyone else? - morricab 05:52:45 07/30/08 (0)
- RE: Mostly agreed. However, I have yet to find an algorithm that does pleasing distortion like a soft clipping - Ugly 19:20:02 07/28/08 (13)
- RE: Mostly agreed. However, I have yet to find an algorithm that does pleasing distortion like a soft clipping - morricab 05:59:41 07/30/08 (3)
- RE: Mostly agreed. However, I have yet to find an algorithm that does pleasing distortion like a soft clipping - Ugly 07:09:26 08/1/08 (2)
- RE: Mostly agreed. However, I have yet to find an algorithm that does pleasing distortion like a soft clipping - morricab 02:10:02 08/4/08 (1)
- Thanks. N/T - Ugly 18:27:28 08/6/08 (0)
- Subliminal distortion may surface unexpectedly - Tony Lauck 21:05:26 07/28/08 (8)
- Transitivity not holding? Wait a minute. - Ugly 22:24:16 07/28/08 (7)
- RE: Transitivity not holding? Wait a minute. - morricab 06:01:15 07/30/08 (2)
- RE: Transitivity not holding? Wait a minute. - Ugly 07:04:46 08/1/08 (1)
- RE: Transitivity not holding? Wait a minute. - Tony Lauck 15:00:27 08/1/08 (0)
- RE: Transitivity not holding? Wait a minute. - Tony Lauck 06:33:55 07/29/08 (3)
- RE: Transitivity not holding? Wait a minute. - Ugly 19:30:48 07/29/08 (2)
- RE: Transitivity not holding? Wait a minute. - Tony Lauck 20:06:32 07/29/08 (1)
- RE: Transitivity not holding? Wait a minute. - morricab 06:08:56 07/30/08 (0)
- I agree with your take on - rp1@surfnetusa.com 13:22:09 07/27/08 (1)
- Same here. No tubes at my place 'cept the picture tube in the old TV in the kids' room. n/t - Ugly 12:58:48 07/28/08 (0)
- Quite true (nt) - AJinFLA 04:19:01 07/26/08 (0)
- What About Built-In Equalization, Notch Filter Circuit & Baffle Step Correction Tweaks Employed In Your Speakers? - thetubeguy1954 13:53:57 07/22/08 (15)
- Polk sold speakers with cabling between speakers for that reason - Atexanathome 18:21:07 07/22/08 (0)
- RE: What About Built-In Equalization, Notch Filter Circuit & Baffle Step Correction Tweaks Employed In Your Speakers? - AJinFLA 14:42:02 07/22/08 (13)
- They're Still Tweaks AJ & You've Made Your View On Tweaks Well Known. - thetubeguy1954 09:25:22 07/23/08 (10)
- Per your post, show we take it that speaker crossovers is a tweak. - theaudiohobby 13:35:52 07/23/08 (9)
- That's Not What I Meant To Imply - thetubeguy1954 08:31:49 07/24/08 (8)
- So the 3 Qts woofers in your Carvers are "tweaks"??? (nt) - AJinFLA 10:03:28 07/24/08 (3)
- Well AJinFLA Let's Examine The Facts, Shall We? - thetubeguy1954 12:30:16 07/24/08 (2)
- Carver Amazing Loudspeaker - Donald North 18:39:03 07/30/08 (1)
- "While you may get a fairly flat steady state frequency response, time response is poor with lots of ringing" - AJinFLA 04:15:12 07/31/08 (0)
- RE: Tweaks - rick_m 09:10:03 07/24/08 (3)
- It is amazing... - mls-stl 16:48:58 07/25/08 (2)
- Pointless? - rick_m 21:04:09 07/25/08 (1)
- RE: Don't take it personally,,, - mls-stl 15:40:39 07/26/08 (0)
- Maybe someday - robert young 20:13:19 07/22/08 (1)
- NOT Today! I Just Felt The Ground & Hell Hasn't Frozen Over Yet! (nt) - thetubeguy1954 06:50:09 07/24/08 (0)
- Remembering Carver's C-9... - mpathus 22:19:40 07/21/08 (0)
- RE: Carver's Sonic Hologram Generator - Awe-d-o-file 21:29:50 07/21/08 (1)
- RE: Carver's Sonic Hologram Generator - MiltoiD 17:33:50 08/15/08 (0)
- RE: Carver's Sonic Hologram Generator - Tony Lauck 14:32:42 07/21/08 (81)
- That's more my understanding of how the device worked - E-Stat 18:01:14 07/21/08 (80)
- You were blissfully unaware that you were "hearing" op-amps in your own recordings - AJinFLA 03:42:29 07/22/08 (78)
- Who can hear op-amps when... - rick_m 10:33:11 07/22/08 (4)
- If by screen you mean grill cloth - E-Stat 17:59:56 07/22/08 (2)
- Nice "Art." (nt) - robert young 20:14:28 07/22/08 (0)
- RE: If by screen you mean grill cloth - rick_m 19:24:13 07/22/08 (0)
- RE: Who can hear op-amps when... - AJinFLA 14:30:27 07/22/08 (0)
- How old were you in 1978 - E-Stat 10:22:37 07/22/08 (72)
- He apparently was deprived of diapers in early childhood, that's possible reason... - carcass93 15:29:03 07/22/08 (3)
- Hey brain dead for 14yrs and counting, are you still ashamed to reveal your stereo? - AJinFLA 15:47:37 07/22/08 (2)
- Why are you ashamed of your age? - E-Stat 17:30:14 07/22/08 (1)
- Because of your op-amp disorder (nt) - AJinFLA 18:37:00 07/22/08 (0)
- Old enough to know that my age has nothing to do with what you "hear" - AJinFLA 14:49:17 07/22/08 (67)
- I'm really sorry to hear - E-Stat 17:25:16 07/22/08 (0)
- RE: Old enough to know that my age has nothing to do with what you "hear" - morricab 17:23:13 07/22/08 (51)
- "Never heard my voice duplicated so accurately " - jpvs 12:27:52 07/23/08 (2)
- His spouse's voice. - rick_m 12:54:59 07/23/08 (1)
- "Why does every system sound so shrill?" - jpvs 13:38:45 07/25/08 (0)
- RE: Old enough to know that my age has nothing to do with what you "hear" - theaudiohobby 10:58:51 07/23/08 (45)
- RE: Old enough to know that my age has nothing to do with what you "hear" - morricab 07:55:04 07/25/08 (0)
- The same old DB BS. - Tony Lauck 12:52:11 07/23/08 (43)
- "A test that lacks statistical significance proves nothing" - AJinFLA 03:27:38 07/25/08 (24)
- RE: "A test that lacks statistical significance proves nothing" - Tony Lauck 08:00:49 07/25/08 (19)
- You and Ivor are of the same ilk - AJinFLA 05:40:13 07/26/08 (18)
- Falling into the trap - Tony Lauck 06:18:32 07/26/08 (17)
- RE: Falling into the trap - AJinFLA 11:05:44 07/26/08 (10)
- Can't help yourself, can you? - robert young 03:18:43 07/27/08 (9)
- I'm OK with AJinFLA - Tony Lauck 18:07:39 07/27/08 (8)
- Hi Tony, - robert young 04:18:38 07/28/08 (7)
- RE: Hi Tony, - Tony Lauck 12:01:51 07/28/08 (1)
- The potential for misinterpretation.... - robert young 12:07:47 07/28/08 (0)
- Difficult, not impossible - Tony Lauck 09:10:27 07/28/08 (4)
- Sorry to disagree... - robert young 11:09:09 07/28/08 (0)
- I can vouch for Robert Hypocrite Young being mentally disabled - AJinFLA 09:58:36 07/28/08 (2)
- "...his thirst for bile." - robert young 11:05:28 07/28/08 (0)
- RE: I can vouch for Robert Hypocrite Young being mentally disabled - Tony Lauck 10:18:39 07/28/08 (0)
- RE: That clears up a lot! - EBradMeyer 07/26/0808:42:30 07/26/08 (5)
- RE: That clears up a lot! - Tony Lauck 10:02:37 07/26/08 (4)
- So do you grind and ink your CDs per better stereo Clark? - AJinFLA 10:00:45 07/28/08 (3)
- RE: So do you grind and ink your CDs per better stereo Clark? - Tony Lauck 10:35:29 07/28/08 (2)
- Forced holiday? - AJinFLA 15:28:31 07/28/08 (1)
- Ask the Bored NT - Tony Lauck 19:40:25 07/28/08 (0)
- For those of us with experience - E-Stat 06:43:38 07/25/08 (3)
- So if I come over, I would find nothing but hundreds of op-amp free recordings in your library? - AJinFLA 05:43:46 07/26/08 (2)
- You would find a wide range of recordings - E-Stat 06:51:33 07/26/08 (1)
- RE: Clearly, the best sounding recordings in my library are those using simple technigues and excellent gear. - rick_m 07:49:45 07/26/08 (0)
- RE: Self-serving commentary - theaudiohobby 04:50:34 07/24/08 (17)
- RE: Self-serving commentary - Tony Lauck 08:12:21 07/24/08 (16)
- RE: Semantics - theaudiohobby 09:47:00 07/24/08 (15)
- RE: Semantics - Tony Lauck 12:29:26 07/24/08 (14)
- RE: Semantics - Andy.G 15:44:42 07/25/08 (2)
- RE: Semantics - Tony Lauck 17:52:47 07/25/08 (1)
- RE: Semantics - Andy.G 02:55:45 07/26/08 (0)
- RE: Siege mentality - theaudiohobby 15:47:10 07/24/08 (10)
- RE: Siege mentality - Tony Lauck 19:27:24 07/24/08 (9)
- RE: Siege mentality - theaudiohobby 00:14:57 07/25/08 (8)
- RE: Siege mentality - Tony Lauck 08:22:56 07/25/08 (5)
- Headroom - Bob Stern 00:58:32 07/28/08 (1)
- RE: Headroom - Tony Lauck 08:27:48 07/28/08 (0)
- RE: Siege mentality - theaudiohobby 03:09:39 07/26/08 (2)
- RE: Siege mentality - morricab 05:30:59 07/28/08 (0)
- RE: Siege mentality - Tony Lauck 06:21:42 07/26/08 (0)
- RE: Siege mentality - morricab 02:24:25 07/25/08 (1)
- "Maybe old Ivor doesn't hear that well" - AJinFLA 03:21:27 07/25/08 (0)
- Groove echo? (nt) - AJinFLA 18:40:18 07/22/08 (1)
- RE: Groove echo? (nt) - morricab 04:04:33 07/23/08 (0)
- RE: Old enough to know that my age has nothing to do with what you "hear" - morricab 17:18:42 07/22/08 (13)
- Many even pre-stereo. - rick_m 20:40:03 07/22/08 (10)
- "Overproduction" agreed, however... - Ugly 00:43:07 07/23/08 (9)
- A matter of taste? - rick_m 07:45:01 07/23/08 (8)
- RE: A matter of taste? It sure seems that way. - Ugly 12:56:10 07/23/08 (2)
- RE: A matter of taste? It sure seems that way. - rick_m 13:39:31 07/23/08 (1)
- RE: A matter of taste? It sure seems that way. - Ugly 23:18:40 07/23/08 (0)
- 3 channels worked well - Tony Lauck 08:40:22 07/23/08 (4)
- They still do - E-Stat 06:40:25 07/25/08 (0)
- RE: 3 channels worked well - rick_m 12:47:00 07/23/08 (2)
- RE: 3 channels worked well - Tony Lauck 13:20:34 07/23/08 (1)
- RE: 3 channels worked well - rick_m 14:29:19 07/23/08 (0)
- So you prefer pre-ops? (nt) - AJinFLA 18:39:29 07/22/08 (1)
- RE: So you prefer pre-ops? (nt) - morricab 04:03:32 07/23/08 (0)
- RE: That's more my understanding of how the device worked - Awe-d-o-file 21:35:07 07/21/08 (0)
Follow Ups
- RE: That clears up a lot! - EBradMeyer 07/26/0808:42:30 07/26/08 (5)
- RE: That clears up a lot! - Tony Lauck 10:02:37 07/26/08 (4)
- So do you grind and ink your CDs per better stereo Clark? - AJinFLA 10:00:45 07/28/08 (3)
- RE: So do you grind and ink your CDs per better stereo Clark? - Tony Lauck 10:35:29 07/28/08 (2)
- Forced holiday? - AJinFLA 15:28:31 07/28/08 (1)
- Ask the Bored NT - Tony Lauck 19:40:25 07/28/08 (0)