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RE: Not relevant unless you are seeing *real* researchers with this attitude.

Posted by May Belt (M) on January 23, 2008 at 09:44:39

In Reply to: Not relevant unless you are seeing *real* researchers with this attitude. posted by Ugly on January 22, 2008 at 18:25:30:

Referring to your reply to Wellfed.

> > > "If you are surrounding yourself with true proffesionals and still seeing this then see my second reply to May below. I have an opinion about this type that I describe there.
In other words are you looking in the right spot? " < < <

You have already stated that you had no idea who Ed Meitner was. So, obviously was not aware of his work on cryogenically freezing all manner of things and improving the sound.

You ask Wellfed the question if he has actually seen 'true professionals' behaving in the manner described i.e not wanting to leave the comfort of the 'scientific security blanket'.

I have lived and worked in the audio industry for over 50 years so, whatever experience with 'true professionals' Wellfed has had - I personally have observed them all at work for 50 years - so I can speak from a wealth of experience !!

If you had not heard of Ed Meitner, then I would turn your question to Wellfed back onto you.
Have YOU, Ugly, been looking in the right spot ?

I would suggest that you make yourself a list of the people who YOU would call a 'true scientist' (true professional) working in audio. Then ask THEM the following question.
"Have they tried freezing the bits and pieces (components and materials) before assembling their equipment ?"

If their answer is "No, they haven't tried this technique," then what does THAT say about their scientific curiosity when hundreds (quite possibly thousands worldwide) of others (so many of them 'amateurs' HAVE tried the freezing technique and heard improvements in the sound.?

If their answer is "Yes, they have tried it but heard no changes in the sound", then what does THAT say about their listening ability when hundreds (if not thousands worldwide) of others HAVE heard improvements.?

If their answer is "Yes, they have tried it AND heard improvements in the sound but have chosen to keep quiet about it", then what does that say about their integrity.? Particularly if they have kept quiet about it for commercial reasons. This also applies to 'true professionals' some of them calling themselves scientists writing on audio matters.

As I say, I have observed so many so called 'true professionals' so let me explain what I mean about keeping quiet 'for commercial reasons'.

Say you have an extremely reputable audio manufacturer with a team of highly qualified audio engineers and a reputation for well made products.
This audio firm, owned by Joe Bloggs making Bloggs audio equipment and with an annual turnover of (say) 40 million pounds/dollars. Now, if this company has an annual turnover of 40 million pounds/dollars, then this means that the buying public is spending annually over 50 million pounds/dollars on Bloggs audio equipment - which is l million pounds/dollars PER WEEK !!!!

If Joe Bloggs DOES hear the technique of freezing bits and pieces before the equipment is assembled give improvements in the sound, how can he possibly now introduce, onto the market, exactly the same models claiming that they now 'sound better' because they have been through the freezing process - when there will be millions of pounds/dollars worth of UNFROZEN Bloggs equipment already in their warehouse, of UNFROZEN Bloggs equipment already in retailers demonstration rooms and stock rooms, of UNFROZEN Bloggs equipment already in overseas agents stockrooms, of UNFROZEN Bloggs equipment already in containers on the high seas, on the way to overseas agents ? And, what about the buying public who purchased 1 million pounds/dollars worth of UNFROZEN Bloggs equipment the previous week, ditto the week before that, ditto the week before that when, if only they had known about the freezing process and waited, they would have had better sounding Bloggs equipment ?

The heading of your reply to Wellfed "Not relevant unless you are seeing *real* researchers with this attitude" shows a naivety on your part Ugly, not on Wellfed's part.

The naivety of believing that there are so many *real* researchers dotted around fully prepared to come out of their 'scientific security blanket' !!

If you are not happy with Ed Meitner's own words "What I've found over the last 15 years of being in high-end audio is that most of the minds are pretty closed" (taken from a conversation with Keith Howard and published in an article entitled "The freezing issue" in Hi Fi News July 2001), then let me quote Keith Howard's own comments from this same article.

"I must say, even after that conversation, I remain puzzled. Having heard for myself the astonishing effect of cryogenically treating the copper in speaker and interconnect cables I can't imagine how this process and it's benefits could fade into obscurity...... Although Meitner still uses cryogenic treatment himself, for everyone else in the audio industry it appears to have been a case of NIH (not invented here) or maybe IDU (I don't understand)."

I wonder which "true professionals" could Keith Howard be refering to ? The very same ones I know of also ?

As a bonus, Ugly, I will quote another section from Keith's same article. Keith refers to a 1977 article in the Hi Fi News entitled "Can we hear connecting wires."

"I still recall the impact of that Jean Hiraga piece, translated from a French original published in La Nouvelle Revue du Son. So-called subjectivism was still a relatively young hi-fi movement at the time, albeit one which had already shaken the foundations of audio orthodoxy with it's exposition of 'turntable' sound and 'amplifier' sound. But these were mere pre-shocks ahead of the eight-on-the-Richter-scale upheaval triggered by the Hiraga article. If even connecting cables sounded different, I remember thinking, then nothing of the old view could be taken for granted any longer. The earth had moved."

Your quote Ugly
> > > "It's too bad that there are some that can't or won't look beyond the blanket, but I believe there are those that can." < < <

30 years on from "the earth moving" Ugly, where are these 'true professionals' you believe are capable of coming out from under their 'scientific security blanket' to sort everything out for you ?

Regards,
May Belt.

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