|
Search of Propeller Head Plaza Enter your search criteria. Click here for tips on using our search |
For Sale Ads |
1: RE: No resolution... (4.01)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2012-11-13, 05:41:20 (65.19.76.104)
I've looked at pits using a regular microscope that belongs to E. Brad Meyer. This was back in the 1980's so I don't recall the details. It was clear that one could decode the information this way, bu .......
2: RE: Audio Cable Bibliography (4.01)
Posted by Jon Risch on 2012-05-07, 21:45:21 (98.95.13.5)
Annotated Cable Bibliography Hardcopy Books & magazines Duncan, Ben & Harrison, Andrew; The Great Cable Test (part 1), Hi-Fi News and Record Review, July 1999, p.30-33, Vol. 44, #7 Duncan, Ben & Harri .......
3: Changing your ground again. (0.25)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-10-18, 07:22:14 (99.251.236.4)
Now you want to argue about something else. I have shown DBTs have been done on expensive cables--but I don't see you apologizing for saying mtrycrafts lied. Now you bring up the alleged faults of the .......
4: When you have to hurl personal accusations to prove your point, youve already lost the argument. (1.54)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-08-03, 20:29:55 (99.251.236.4)
You maintain a number of things about the 1987 test but have not established any of them. You haven't shown why we would expect the Futterman amp to sound different--though from what I have seen somew .......
5: Gotta hand it to ya Pat. you never have been one to let facts get in your way (2.24)
Posted by Analog Scott on 2010-07-31, 19:54:14 (173.215.206.130)
"Well, when you want to discuss an article, it behooves you to know who wrote it, what the title is, and what it said." Really one has to know the title? No Pat, all one needs to know in this case wer .......
6: RE: I caught Analog Scott out on two things. (1.90)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-07-31, 18:39:14 (99.251.236.4)
Well, when you want to discuss an article, it behooves you to know who wrote it, what the title is, and what it said. You showed no sign of knowing anything of the sort. As for the flawed methodology .......
7: It's not my source but one Analog Scott was using to make some point or other. (2.22)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-07-29, 12:18:16 (99.251.236.4)
I caught Analog Scott out on two things. One is an blind amplifier test published in Stereo Review which he kept saying was published in 1985. I quickly found out that it was published in 1987, which .......
8: Have you found those FR differences you mentioned that exceed known audible thresholds yet? (3.12)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-07-24, 18:15:23 (99.251.236.4)
You know, the ones mentioned in the OP and which you later said exceeded known audible thresholds shown on the ABX site? The information I asked you for? http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/mes .......
9: Have I cited that article? (2.18)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-07-22, 16:15:05 (99.251.236.4)
I don't even have a copy of it. Also, I know that some amplifiers do indeed sound different from some other amplifiers. DBTs have shown some high fidelity amplifiers sound different when driving compl .......
10: RE: You're predictable: never deal with arguments. (1.92)
Posted by kerr on 2010-07-22, 06:43:21 (209.43.1.25)
Something you posted to me in Critics really hit home. I've known it but it's significance never really registered. The two sides have been arguing the same issues since before 1985 (as evidenced by y .......
11: RE: One can not have a high end system without a suitable room (3.28)
Posted by KlausR. on 2010-07-11, 00:50:22 (83.80.191.138)
>I don't believe that we are really disagreeing. If “room” includes the interaction between room and speakers, hence placement and the speakers’ off-axis behaviour, then we indeed agree. >In addition .......
12: RE: Since you haven't followed the discussion . . . (2.48)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2010-07-01, 08:07:05 (65.19.76.104)
Thank you for being specific. Now we can specifically disagree. Perhaps c93's restatement is not a perfect paraphrase of the original, but it seems like a reasonable summary to me. It is definitely no .......
13: RE: Stereo vs. multichannel: what are your thoughts on this statement (inside). (2.43)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2010-06-25, 07:32:54 (65.19.76.104)
No conflict over audio in those days. This was before digital. It was Brad Meyer who introduced me and Peter Moncrief to stereo through a demonstration he orchestrated that was put on by Bill Bell, t .......
14: RE: Stereo vs. multichannel: what are your thoughts on this statement (inside). (3.23)
Posted by kerr on 2010-06-25, 07:20:08 (209.43.1.25)
>...when my roommates were Clark Johnsen and Brad Meyer... The mere fact that all three of you survived is a testament to... what? Mammoth endurance? Colossal patience? The resilience of the human con .......
15: You're making lots of assumptions. (4.16)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-06-24, 16:41:07 (99.251.236.4)
Well, if you want to call hearing loss with age an assumption, that's up to you, but don't expect rational people to follow. You make an assumption that listening skills will make up for that. Maybe, .......
16: RE: Stereo vs. multichannel: what are your thoughts on this statement (inside). (4.84)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2010-06-24, 14:34:55 (65.19.76.104)
Back one summer in the mid 1960's when my roommates were Clark Johnsen and Brad Meyer we had lots of KLH-6s between us. Normally, we had a center channel that was driven with a mixture of L and R. Thi .......
17: RE: Truncated experience? (3.39)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2010-06-24, 13:59:04 (65.19.76.104)
There is a big difference between 50 kHz sampling and 44 kHz sampling. In my experience, going to 48 kHz gives the majority of benefit from higher sampling rates. Beyond that it's a case of diminishin .......
18: Assumptions, assumptions (4.61)
Posted by E-Stat on 2010-06-24, 12:13:25 (206.255.211.134)
...when he was younger and could hear better. Speak for yourself if you have gained zero experience and have not improved your listening skills over a twenty year period. I'm sorry to hear that - bu .......
19: RE: Truncated experience? (6.09)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-06-24, 10:57:24 (99.251.236.4)
One wonders what you are talking about. You have just said that the mic feed and the recording sound just the same based on anecdotal evidence, including that of Stan Ricker, just as Stan Ricker said .......
20: Truncated experience? (8.80)
Posted by E-Stat on 2010-06-24, 10:07:32 (206.255.211.134)
Unlike you, many of us have experienced different systems whose performance is beyond the insipid. You're among the proud few who wave the banner of mediocrity high in the name of audio. Dream on! S .......
21: You have a peculiarly truncated notion of experience. (5.73)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-06-24, 09:03:12 (99.251.236.4)
E-stat "That the box reveals gross differences is not under debate." You have a peculiar idea of what gross effects might be! Meyer and Moran looked at some of the things asserted by the subjective au .......
22: You seem to have no scientific strategies. (10.17)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-06-23, 19:24:23 (99.251.236.4)
""A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses." I should point out that listening without knowing the .......
23: RE: Agreed (8.14)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-06-22, 12:59:12 (99.251.236.4)
Well, the tests dealt with what is possible with the consumer product. If the SACD or DVD sounds different from the CD (and I know there are dual layer SACD/CDs), one has the right to ask why, since a .......
24: RE: Not responsive.. (11.04)
Posted by kerr on 2010-06-21, 09:28:09 (209.43.1.25)
>Tell it to E. Brad Meyer. Do you think he'd listen? Do you think he's at all curious as to whether the components under test are being compared to themselves instead of each other? Maybe, but one can .......
25: Precisely (4.76)
Posted by E-Stat on 2010-06-21, 08:44:56 (206.255.211.134)
That is a different situation and not what Meyer and Moran tested. Comparing the original feed is the real world, not some contrived attempt at duplicating the real world. Stan Ricker said: "The s .......
26: RE: Not responsive.. (10.41)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-06-21, 08:33:29 (99.251.236.4)
"Then I find it odd that none of the ABX proponents has tested it to see what effect it does have, if any." Tell it to E. Brad Meyer. .......
27: So now we're talking of a direct feed . . . (3.56)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-06-21, 08:30:33 (99.251.236.4)
That is a different situation and not what Meyer and Moran tested. And for this new situation, all you offer is anecdotal evidence. That would be a good reason to do a controlled DBT to see if it's ac .......
28: RE: Agreed (9.14)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2010-06-21, 07:22:56 (65.19.76.104)
Actually, even if you believe their tests were sensitive enough and the listeners well trained (I don't) they did not show that you could record at 44/16 and not lose anything. The reason: they did no .......
29: RE: Agreed (5.72)
Posted by Pat D on 2010-06-20, 20:12:40 (99.251.236.4)
E-stat "When every recording engineer has compared the direct feed of a recording through multiple resolutions and found Redbook lacking, why would E Brad ever consider that his test is fatally flawed .......
30: "As I recall, the total capacitance was equal to about 4 inches of the least capacitive cable " (8.08)
Posted by E-Stat on 2010-06-19, 09:19:12 (206.255.211.134)
I wasn't referring to the box by itself. That is one of the fallacies of testing. Unsupported assumptions become part of the test. I was referring to measuring a cable by itself and at the other end o .......
31: Some (final) points (2.62)
Posted by KlausR. on 2010-06-16, 09:13:40 (83.80.191.138)
1. Calibration: If we call the effect to be evaluated "bottlenecking", the possibly only acceptable way to calibrate the system is to use a bottlenecked signal, hence the effect itself, otherwise you .......
32: RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity (6.68)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2010-06-15, 08:58:27 (65.19.76.104)
The real flaw is that there was no calibration of the source material, equipment, room, etc. as to resolution and suitability to detect the effects being evaluated, nor was there qualification or trai .......
33: RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity (3.61)
Posted by KlausR. on 2010-06-15, 02:47:48 (83.80.191.138)
So, that's settled then. Which means that in fact the setups used for the test were ok (source material (check out David Moran's posts in the linked thread), gear, method), except they did not meet "a .......
34: RE: Meyer/Moran threads (2.68)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2010-06-14, 08:46:22 (65.19.76.104)
I don't know why you didn't find my posts on the subject. I did post, and I made a particular attempt to study the material carefully, because I am friends with both Clark and Brad. One summer I share .......
35: Meyer/Moran threads (7.12)
Posted by KlausR. on 2010-06-14, 08:19:20 (83.80.191.138)
>>"Reminds me of the discussion of the Meyer/Moran paper about SACD vs CD, where nobody actually had read the paper but all knew for sure that the study was flawed." >Not my recollection at all. Many .......
36: Case Closed? Not -- I doubt it will ever be closed. (11.63)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2010-06-13, 10:39:18 (65.19.76.104)
"Reminds me of the discussion of the Meyer/Moran paper about SACD vs CD, where nobody actually had read the paper but all knew for sure that the study was flawed." Not my recollection at all. Many o .......
37: RE: That is clearly crap (6.75)
Posted by KlausR. on 2010-06-12, 13:38:08 (83.80.191.138)
Surely you had a close look at Harman's data and found them defective, right? Reminds me of the discussion of the Meyer/Moran paper about SACD vs CD, where nobody actually had read the paper but all k .......
38: RE: Side effects (11.53)
Posted by kerr on 2010-05-29, 08:43:02 (98.227.177.48)
>you will accept the doctor's advice and take the drug. You will not question the results of tests of that drug off-hand just because you were not involved in the clinical tests. Neither you nor Meyer .......
39: RE: Side effects (5.84)
Posted by KlausR. on 2010-05-29, 07:49:34 (83.80.191.138)
>The same drug that might be perfect for you might cause a side effect in me that offsets the drug's value. True, but in the first instance you will accept the doctor's advice and take the drug. You w .......
40: RE: I don't give a damn (7.14)
Posted by KlausR. on 2010-05-29, 04:43:53 (83.80.191.138)
Following the same line of reasoning you should not rely on drug tests, performed by an arbitrary bunch of people who are not you, guided by some biased scientists. Yet you willingly swallow those dru .......
41: "listening test that shows..." - it shows exactly NOTHING, unless you're participant. (6.67)
Posted by carcass93 on 2010-05-28, 10:46:19 (129.33.19.254)
So far, nobody has been able to explain how listening tests, performed by some people who are not you, on audio system that is not yours, can prove or disprove anything. In other words - I don't give .......
42: RE: If Wires Have Unique Sonic Characteristics Why Aren't They Revealed In LCR Measurements? (7.60)
Posted by Jon Risch on 2010-01-17, 22:35:16 (65.12.32.59)
RE a) Typical LCR meter type measurements do not provide anything but the gross fundamental portion of the L, the R or the C. They do not cover the more subtle aspects of the L, C or R at all. As an e .......
43: RE: Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ (0.23)
Posted by theaudiohobby on 2009-09-11, 06:02:26 (90.198.203.38)
"It just says it can. But it never states **how**......." let's revisit the text "ABX tests can easily be performed as double-blind trials, eliminating any possible unconscious influence from the rese .......
44: RE: Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ (6.04)
Posted by theaudiohobby on 2009-09-09, 14:14:10 (90.198.203.38)
"ABX tests can easily be performed as double-blind trials, eliminating any possible unconscious influence from the researcher or supervising technician."(Wikipedia ABX Test) Per my revised post. An .......
45: Are you Meyer or Moran? Or at least one of the participants, may be? (6.89)
Posted by carcass93 on 2009-09-01, 13:09:22 (129.33.19.254)
No? Neither am I. Then what's the significance of that for YOU? Somebody unknown to you is unable to hear something, using equipment of questionable resolution (in fact, take that back - unquestionabl .......
46: Well, in any spectral analysis of music I've ever seen . . . (10.97)
Posted by Pat D on 2009-09-01, 12:48:56 (99.251.236.4)
but you wouldn't believe it. Moran-Myer didn't show the difference was audible--even with the eyes. .......
47: RE: It's better than nothing - and surely better than pathetic Meyer-Moran exercise. (5.29)
Posted by caspian@peak.org on 2009-09-01, 09:07:56 (66.178.138.149)
"there actually ARE musical instruments that produce frequencies in >22 kHz range (and we're not even talking software, which is legitimate "instrument", too)." Well, it is a FACT that musical instrum .......
48: It's the answer to a different question (4.22)
Posted by Axon on 2009-08-31, 22:12:45 (70.114.151.173)
I'm honestly not that well informed about this listening test, but I think it is important to distinguish between testing psychoacoustic limits, and testing the actual (sonic) added value of a music f .......
49: It's better than nothing - and surely better than pathetic Meyer-Moran exercise. (8.35)
Posted by carcass93 on 2009-08-31, 17:58:25 (71.168.239.234)
In presense of such tests, it's somewhat more difficult to argue adequacy of 44.1 kHz RBCD sample rate, wouldn't you say? Combined with the fact that there actually ARE musical instruments that produc .......
50: That's for sure! Education certainly wouldn't appear to have been a priority. (6.48)
Posted by bjh on 2009-08-15, 06:55:07 (64.231.68.143)
As for Meyer it would appear he took Home Economics instead of Statistics! Analysis of Hi-Rez v. Reedbook results - Pt. 1 Analysis of Hi-Rez v. Reedbook results - Pt. 2 To his credit however it mus .......
51: RE: The Real Belief System Exposed............. (3.64)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2009-08-14, 20:30:21 (65.19.76.104)
The "audiophile delusion" was indeed created and marketed by the industry after high fidelity sound had been ruined by the advent of convenient but inferior 44/16 digital technology. Most of the so-ca .......
52: RE: Carcass93 (3.31)
Posted by bjh on 2009-08-12, 13:45:46 (216.209.33.106)
It would behoove to search for the main posts related to the E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran Hi-Rez v. Redbook CD DBT that occurred on this very forum back in 2007. In particular you should carefully .......
53: "I could let you go... But that wouldn't serve you." - Saw IV (movie). (11.01)
Posted by carcass93 on 2009-07-31, 10:51:55 (129.33.19.254)
Likewise, people who embarassed themselves with that joke of a "test", could do a lot of things differently - but that wouldn't serve advancing their agenda. If somebody's familiar with that "study" i .......
54: RE: The Audio Critic has a different viewpoint.... (3.43)
Posted by Donald North on 2009-07-31, 10:03:11 (216.175.84.236)
The Audio Critic used to think amplifiers sounded different in 1976, now he's 33 years older and doesn't - not surprising. Here's what The Audio Critic said about the original Electrocompaniet amplifi .......
55: RE: The Audio Critic has a different viewpoint.... (4.97)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2009-07-31, 07:24:05 (65.19.76.104)
Been there. Done that. Even discussed the Meyer and Moran paper, but I won't even bother to take the time to find and link to my posts on this subject. .......
56: RE: The proposition that the 'evidence' is mostly bogus (9.48)
Posted by bjh on 2009-07-27, 09:21:00 (216.209.33.106)
RBNG has produced little besides the decades old ABX site tests which date back to the appearance of the ABX comparator (sample link provided below). He also has posited a great number of fanciful con .......
57: RE: well designed DBTs are consistent with the Sciencific method. (4.23)
Posted by theaudiohobby on 2009-06-16, 17:34:35 (90.208.167.156)
>>Which ones would those be? Sean Olive paper (Loudspeakers) Brad Meyer(SACD /CD) >> There is much more to the scientific method than the application of blind protocols. Do you think all one needs to .......
58: Your original wisdom deserves a wider audience. (3.60)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2009-06-08, 09:21:40 (65.19.76.104)
Your original wisdom deserves a wider and more respected audience. I suggest you submit it to the AES so that it can be accorded a proper imprimatur and so that you can be recognized as a proper scien .......
59: You're just babbling now. (3.37)
Posted by robert young on 2009-04-05, 06:57:17 (173.68.246.234)
In not one of the quotes you highlight have I made a "claim." No inconsistency exists. If you understood the analogy, you wouldn't think it "poor," and perhaps then wouldn't have wasted quite so much .......
60: RE: Influence of price on wine testing (1.54)
Posted by theaudiohobby on 2009-03-18, 15:29:08 (90.209.200.252)
Seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it, the last two peer-reviewed DBT papers that passed through this place gave some statistics on listener sensitivity. Sean Olive's and Brad Meyer's .......
61: RE: As long as you're not "dancing about architecture" (3.43)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2009-03-17, 12:02:02 (65.19.76.104)
"Did you play the recording for anyone who wasn't there when the piano was playing live? Did they feel the same way about it as you did?" Nope. Just played it for my own entertainment. I did discover .......
62: RE: What physical limits? (1.87)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2009-02-08, 18:40:47 (65.19.76.104)
I should think the volume settings we had would have been suitable for playback of Tom Danley's recording of fireworks at realistic levels, had our amplifier, speakers and ears been up to it. (And the .......
63: I gave you references to peer reviewed articles below, but you ignore them. (3.32)
Posted by Pat D on 2009-02-07, 16:51:25 (99.251.236.4)
You just ignore them. I told you just what article the Level Matching Criteria graph came from, but now you pretend I never did, and much of your post consists of contrary to fact assertions. But here .......
64: RE: What physical limits? (1.50)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2009-02-07, 13:12:13 (65.19.76.104)
"Well, jj did mention that the stimulus has to be sufficiently strong to excite the nerves to send signals to the brain. Now, I have to agree that does imply material conditions for human hearing!" .......
65: Problems with Authorities (1.55)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2009-02-06, 10:36:12 (65.19.76.104)
"It is well known and the practitioners here in that sort of field use it: jj, Jitter, Caymus, and specifically in audio, though less rigorous, Jon Risch, John Atkinson, Arny Krueger, Tom Nousaine, a .......
66: Well, controlled DBT is the scientific method for determining small audible differences. (1.71)
Posted by Pat D on 2009-02-06, 09:37:47 (99.251.236.4)
I take you have given up maintaining that obtaining different results in sighted and blind auditions is faith based. It's not faith based, it's a matter of experience, as RBNG has pointed out many tim .......
67: RE: Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing (1.84)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2009-01-29, 07:47:34 (65.19.76.104)
It was clear what "perfect sound" meant to me when I first heard it. But that was because I was used to making and copying recordings, as was my friend Brad Meyer. Perfect sound means that the recordi .......
68: RE: Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing (2.22)
Posted by theaudiohobby on 2009-01-29, 04:59:41 (90.209.200.223)
"That's what I said, undetectable. That is the perfection that the original CD marketing hype claimed." As andy19191 has mentioned it's a marketing slogan. I played a 1986 CD the other day, played jus .......
69: The test in question doesn't appear to even meet *your very own* "basics of blind tests"! (2.25)
Posted by bjh on 2008-10-23, 13:47:30 (216.209.33.106)
Let's look at the very first of your "basics of blind tests" as stated to E. Brad Meyer (see link) when questioning the results of the Boston Audio Society's Reedbook v. HiRez DBT (that based upon you .......
70: RE: Sometimes null results are extremely significant and contentious. (2.69)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2008-10-06, 09:16:09 (65.19.76.104)
"Mixing and mastering are different issues. I gather it's handy to have the extra bits for mixing. But your old friend E.Brad Meyer showed that any audible differences between Hi-rez and 44.1 discs d .......
71: RE: Sometimes null results are extremely significant and contentious. (3.48)
Posted by Pat D on 2008-10-03, 11:18:17 (99.251.236.4)
"Later, Sony decided that perhaps CD's weren't quite so perfect when their engineers looked into digitizing master tape archives, which led to the development of DSD. (That's just one interpretation, .......
72: RE: Falling into the trap (3.26)
Posted by AJinFLA on 2008-07-26, 11:05:44 (97.103.4.142)
Actually, no. I did try a double blind digital bypass test using an ABX box and a PCM-F1. It was at a place belonging to a former roommate, E. Brad Meyer. Of course, like all others, I "failed" the t .......
73: Falling into the trap (1.53)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2008-07-26, 06:18:32 (65.19.76.104)
"You subjectivists know better than to fall for this trap now, don't you Tony?" Actually, no. I did try a double blind digital bypass test using an ABX box and a PCM-F1. It was at a place belonging .......
74: "Why do many people prefer the sound of LPs?" I once asked that of Dr. Richard Goldwater... (2.27)
Posted by clarkjohnsen on 2008-06-26, 09:04:02 (208.58.2.83)
...he of the (in)famous Shoptalk program on audio, with Peter Mitchell and later Brad Meyer too. His answer? Delivered in complete seriousness: "I suppose that some people enjoy the noise." That was i .......
75: Yet another self-declared winner. (3.96)
Posted by Pat D on 2008-06-21, 06:09:37 (99.251.236.4)
jj, a world class expert on audio DBTs, posted extensively on this board, and so what he said is very accessible. But there are others. E. Brad Meyer, for example, has done a lot of audio DBTs, though .......
76: RE: No, you still haven't got it. (3.31)
Posted by Pat D on 2008-06-18, 17:20:20 (99.251.236.4)
Richard isn't the only one. There's jj, Tom Nousaine, E. Brad Meyer, Arny Krueger, the late John Dunlavy . . . - "It pertains to all men to know themselves and to be temperate." ---Heraclitus of Ephes .......
77: RE: Here's What's Really Funny... (4.34)
Posted by Tony Lauck on 2008-02-18, 08:51:35 (65.19.76.104)
I would like to know just what this device does that I wasn't doing in the 1960's. At the time, I had three KLH-6 speakers, with a Citation II driving the left and right and a Heathkit 25 watt Willia .......
78: RE: a challenge for objectivists (2.88)
Posted by rdf on 2007-11-21, 15:30:05 (64.114.95.25)
The challenge for 'objectivists' (sub/obj are horrid classifications) is that DBTs in the form of a challenge are by definition biased and invalid. One need look no further than Brad Meyer's own preli .......
79: because they are the only ones that are relevant. (2.20)
Posted by Analog Scott on 2007-11-19, 18:29:46 (207.200.116.66)
Medical DBTs on cancer drugs don't really tell us anything about the sound of amps. > The first example that comes to mind is the recent Meyer and Moran paper.> Not bad. They really didn't directly t .......
80: And why should I limit only to those? (7.20)
Posted by truthseekerprime on 2007-11-19, 18:02:30 (69.200.83.8)
The claim was DBTs are not "scientifically validated" for determining equipment differences. The first example that comes to mind is the recent Meyer and Moran paper. Another is Grenier and Melton. Ju .......
81: RE: The Incomprehension of the Concept of Resolution (8.80)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-31, 12:26:15 (83.248.81.247)
"the sum total of numerous performance aspects that affect the reproduction of music, only some of which correlate to observation" : I'll have to reply on this more thoughtfully tomorrow, but just ve .......
82: I'm not talking about 'hi rez' formats... (2.88)
Posted by Wellfed on 2007-10-30, 10:03:15 (24.116.186.171)
I'm talking about coaxing more definition out of every format. This can be accomplished without even altering the electrical signal path. I haven't read the E. Brad Meyer post. .......
83: RE: "higher definition sound" (4.37)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-30, 04:20:12 (83.248.91.68)
That's different from the "resolving ability" of electronic components. You are talking about the software, the sound recording. Did you take a look at that post by E. Brad Meyer? TL .......
84: RE: So? Let's call them up... (4.28)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-25, 11:27:55 (83.248.91.43)
I think I will leave you alone with your efforts to see if by merely reiterating your claims forcefully enough you can get your message convincingly communicated to someone. By now you're out of argum .......
85: RE: So? Let's call them up... (10.83)
Posted by morricab on 2007-10-25, 06:03:38 (196.3.50.254)
"So, ONCE AGAIN, what does the JAES editorial policy have to do with the quality of the research and the results by Meyer & Moran?" Why are you harping on this? My point is they left out the details a .......
86: RE: So? Let's call them up... (7.68)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-25, 04:11:29 (83.248.91.43)
OK, so you want to now move on and leave your hypothesis that electronic components have a "resolving power" and instead start accusing the inherent defects of ABXing in general for not yielding your .......
87: RE: So? Let's call them up... (3.78)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-25, 03:08:25 (83.248.91.43)
It really doesn't matter whom you feel like you want to blame and for what, that's just a function of a pre-existing bias you seem to have. Without that bias you would have probably already many times .......
88: RE: So? Let's call them up... (10.93)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-24, 12:18:53 (83.248.105.72)
>>"and tell them that as an experienced chemist you have a different view of how to run their audio journal" >Noooo...let's call them up and tell them that an experienced analytical scientist has a d .......
89: RE: So? Let's call them up... (5.81)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-24, 12:01:34 (83.248.105.72)
I said: "Your persistence on this point indicates to me you didn't read Meyer's response..." Note that the word used was "read" (nothing about "replying" then). So let me be persistent and ask: What .......
90: RE: Brad Meyer's (sp) post to me implies no one was asked if he heard a difference in a sighted warm-up audition. (11.13)
Posted by morricab on 2007-10-24, 09:08:44 (196.3.50.254)
Well as usual you make a good point and then shoot your load all over it. If they can't hear a difference cited I agree with you then there is no point to a blind test. If they do hear a difference si .......
91: RE: So? Let's call them up... (2.30)
Posted by morricab on 2007-10-24, 07:39:57 (196.3.50.254)
"and tell them that as an experienced chemist you have a different view of how to run their audio journal" Noooo...let's call them up and tell them that an experienced analytical scientist has a diffe .......
92: So? Let's call them up... (5.98)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-24, 03:27:57 (83.248.105.72)
...and tell them that as an experienced chemist you have a different view of how to run their audio journal. How does their standard editorial policy have anything to do with the validity and merits o .......
93: Brad Meyer's (sp) post to me implies no one was asked if he heard a difference in a sighted warm-up audition. (8.03)
Posted by Richard BassNut Greene on 2007-10-23, 16:56:46 (66.51.146.3)
My blind test "principles" say the test is only to determine if things "heard" in a prior sighted audition were real or imagined. With ANY stereo equipment to be used for a test, we need some evidence .......
94: RE: "It won't hold up." (2.61)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-10-23, 12:00:32 (71.233.247.75)
The question of whether CD players have an identifiable sound is irrelevant to the research written up in the paper, which is an attempt to answer a specific question. Here’s a restatement of our ques .......
95: RE: That clears up a lot! (1.52)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-10-23, 11:54:46 (71.233.247.75)
Dear Morricab; I appreciate the time and trouble you took in your long and civil post. I think most of the things you are talking about can be summarized in two principal sections. First, regarding e .......
96: RE: Your kind invitation (1.38)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-10-23, 08:13:30 (71.233.247.75)
Mr. Christensen; I wish I could come to Copenhagen and do some testing in a good recording studio -- though I did an organ recording in Lyngby in October many years ago, and as I remember it was alrea .......
97: RE: That clears up a lot! (2.81)
Posted by morricab on 2007-10-23, 08:11:56 (196.3.50.254)
Ok first, sorry for the late reply I somehow overlooked your response. Now, all electronics used for an analytical purpose (in this case generating a test signal and detection of that signal) have a r .......
98: RE: Good, so we expect you to be arguing accordingly. (0.68)
Posted by morricab on 2007-10-23, 07:20:50 (196.3.50.254)
Well thanks for bringing to my attention the post from EBrad Meyer. I missed it somehow and I will address it and not bother you further. .......
99: RE: You are engaged in a practice known as "cherry picking". (4.71)
Posted by John Atkinson on 2007-10-21, 05:13:07 (4.237.92.28)
>>> The probability that by chance alone of 18 or fewer out of 48 is >>> 0.0557. Pretty low wouldn't you say? >> >> Low enough that a further test of just the females would be justified. > > This is w .......
100: Maybe you should go back and re-read your post . . . (5.43)
Posted by Pat D on 2007-10-20, 14:02:00 (74.106.240.93)
Your example gave specifics proper for medical DBTs: "One could simply offer the medication to a group of people and look at the results, but most drug testing involves the use of a placebo, or false .......
101: RE: Another comment on the Meyer/Moran CD vs. Hi-Rez Paper ... (2.52)
Posted by drmoran@aol.com on 2007-10-20, 10:17:42 (71.232.225.181)
>> What's more a score of at least 252 (just 6 more correct identifications) out of 467 does meet the 95% confidence level. Since you now say you are a curious type, and have pulled back on the wholes .......
102: RE: That clears up a lot! (8.19)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-10-20, 06:25:07 (71.247.240.112)
Dear Morricab; You say that you have written many technical papers for refereed journals, but you include no citations, so I can’t tell whether you are the principal author or even identify what field .......
103: "Negative" DBT Results and Desired Outcomes (1.26)
Posted by Todd Krieger on 2007-10-19, 20:15:26 (75.215.147.161)
If asking for absolutes is bad, this implies that bending, twisting, and/or fudging the data should be deemed an acceptable practice. I could not disagree more. And isn't demanding proof for one's cla .......
104: Another comment on the Meyer/Moran CD vs. Hi-Rez Paper ... (5.15)
Posted by bjh on 2007-10-19, 15:23:04 (64.231.119.117)
I know I indicated I would be taking a break from here but I figured this was worth an exception and moreover since this is where the paper has been most discussed ... I just recently located a Binom .......
105: "The null hypo. is what you seek to disprove in hopes of supporting your hypo." Really? Are you sure? (3.86)
Posted by truthseekerprime on 2007-10-18, 12:31:38 (128.122.52.62)
OK, if you're sure that's what you think! In that case I'll take as my null hypothesis to be that SACD is audibly different from CD. More specifically, that 95% of the time a listener can distinguish .......
106: Meyer and Moran's principal oversight, was to blithely equate CD sound to their digital down-converter. (8.14)
Posted by clarkjohnsen on 2007-10-18, 10:28:05 (208.58.2.83)
While one may argue (as I do) that the tests were ill-conducted, there is no gainsaying the gap in logic and experiment across which they adduce that specious correlation. clark .......
107: If you read your own links you'd look less foolish. (9.11)
Posted by truthseekerprime on 2007-10-18, 09:25:34 (128.122.52.62)
"The null hypothesis, H0, represents a theory that has been put forward, either because it is believed to be true or because it is to be used as a basis for argument, but has not been proved." For the .......
108: I'll alert the media! (7.42)
Posted by kerr on 2007-10-18, 05:57:06 (74.133.19.230)
Aczel says that it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that high rez is audibly indistinguishable from 16/44.1. Those with opposing test results have proof of just the opposite. And now we have .......
109: Only children ask for absolutes (3.84)
Posted by truthseekerprime on 2007-10-18, 05:17:43 (69.200.83.8)
You are quite sure hi-res sounds better than CD, right? So you should take as your null hypothesis that they can be distinguished, say, 95% of the time (the 5% accounts for the times the listener is t .......
110: Your conclusions may vary... (5.58)
Posted by rick_m on 2007-10-17, 14:36:25 (64.13.14.96)
My conclusion from reading the same material is that under best-case conditions the "CD" standard is just barely adequate. Oddly his is almost the same: "Meyer and Moran do not say that 14 or 15 bits .......
111: Aczel weighs in on the Meyer/Moran CD vs. Hi-Rez Paper - Highly Amusing (6.39)
Posted by bjh on 2007-10-17, 12:07:22 (216.209.33.106)
Here's Peter Aczel's highly amusing reporting on the study (see link): In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalist .......
112: RE: perhaps you should take your own advice (5.65)
Posted by Pat D on 2007-10-17, 07:15:22 (74.106.240.93)
E. Brad Meyer seems to think Richard knows the basics. - "It pertains to all men to know themselves and to be temperate." ---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright) .......
113: RE: What is it that you are trying to say? (4.67)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-17, 05:46:07 (83.248.111.232)
Thanks for your reply. Firstly, that "going by the best evidence available" didn't refer to any particular test results obtained by Meyer & Moran (although it in fact could have, given that there seem .......
114: RE: Yes, stick with me and ... (5.78)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-10-17, 03:23:13 (24.63.6.232)
"Yes, stick with me and after maybe 5-6 more addendums you'll have the makings of a respectible [sic] report!" bjh (or whatever your real name is) I need to address one thing at this juncture: I am n .......
115: RE: A few observations (and the same conclusion)... (2.10)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-10-16, 14:56:14 (71.233.247.75)
Dear bjh; Your objection to our paper seems fairly typical of the response of a certain group of posters here, so I’ll answer it in detail and let this stand for the rest. The “woeful lack of detail” .......
116: RE: Please respond to this old post (1.08)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-10-16, 14:49:49 (71.233.247.75)
Ole; I appreciate your experience in audio, and I remember Poul Ladegaard from my days at Bolt Beranek and Newman, where we used Bruel and Kjaer equipment for lots of measurements. It is certainly ve .......
117: RE: A few observations (and the same conclusion)... (2.17)
Posted by drmoran@aol.com on 2007-10-16, 14:22:59 (128.89.68.47)
>> an example of shoddy science at very best This is too funny. The tests were extensive and solid, and high-end tweak-oriented listeners and their systems, plus recording engineers, plus students of .......
118: RE: What is it that you are trying to say? (6.45)
Posted by John Atkinson on 2007-10-16, 04:46:42 (4.237.92.112)
>>...the opportunity to compare the hi-rez originals with Red Book >>versions and increasingly lossily compressed MP3s. Not scientific >>testing, of course, but surely direct experience of something i .......
119: RE: "I don't like [Meyer & Moran's] attitude in the paper or here..." (12.30)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-15, 14:27:37 (83.248.111.232)
Regarding your first point, we're in agreement; regarding the second, that smells then politics to me; and regarding your final point, I'm just following the suit. TL .......
120: We use Meyer stuff almost exclusively... (9.19)
Posted by SF tech on 2007-10-15, 09:45:58 (216.100.227.202)
Milo, M2D, and Melodie line arrays... And scores of MSL-4's, 650P's, etc. Meyer makes some nice sounding gear. Haven't heard any of Danley's boxes (that I'm aware of). :-) .......
121: RE: I work for an A/V company... (7.12)
Posted by Burns on 2007-10-14, 18:30:54 (66.209.89.177)
I work for one of the biggest shows on the strip. We have an all Meyer rig EXCEPT for some of Toms subs for FX. They rock. I also use pro gear in my own home. I have some nice Meyer HD1s along with so .......
122: Healthy attitude (7.15)
Posted by kerr on 2007-10-14, 18:02:05 (74.133.19.230)
>Personally I don't have a strong opinion on this, and while I found Moran and Meyer's work pretty compelling, an equivalent contrary result would convince me otherwise. I agree, except that I didn't .......
123: "it can allow you to hear a noise floor below the 16 bit quantization noise" - no! (10.12)
Posted by truthseekerprime on 2007-10-14, 10:27:35 (69.200.83.8)
16 bit audio has a theoretical best S/N of 96.3dB (which is 20 log(2^16)). Dither *reduces* the S/N (but improves the sound). A higher bit-depth recording would have a better maximum S/N. Therefore if .......
124: RE: "I don't like [Meyer & Moran's] attitude in the paper or here..." (7.13)
Posted by Ted Smith on 2007-10-14, 09:35:15 (71.112.95.63)
Howdy Tho I agree that others posts here aren't always what you might hope, I don't agree that all of the posts of the authors of the paper in question are dispassionate or respectful. Their posts spe .......
125: You're welcome :-). (7.50)
Posted by truthseekerprime on 2007-10-14, 08:57:40 (69.200.83.8)
But it's actually true - why shouldn't SACD sound better? Unlike many audiophile beliefs it's totally within the realm of possibility, doesn't contradict any laws of physics (or even psychoacoustics), .......
126: RE: "I don't like [Meyer & Moran's] attitude in the paper or here..." (8.37)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-14, 03:46:39 (83.248.111.232)
Are you negatively comparing their dispassionate and respectful (and rather generous I would have to add) participation in this forum to the attitude and style of posters such as, for example, clarkjo .......
127: What is it that you are trying to say? (6.97)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-10-14, 03:33:56 (83.248.111.232)
The posts you have linked as "proof" of something were questions to Atkinson inquiring about the reasons why he felt compelled to try and bias the perception of that study before having even seen it h .......
128: RE: Yes, you're correct... (3.11)
Posted by Ted Smith on 2007-10-13, 16:03:57 (71.112.95.63)
Howdy SACDs which use SBM for the Redbook layer often clearly marked as SBM, but (since at times discs are mislabeled) you can ask the masterers or producers of the SACDs some of which who post here o .......
129: RE: Yes, you're correct... (6.33)
Posted by truthseekerprime on 2007-10-13, 15:00:04 (69.200.83.8)
Oh right - I forgot about the hybrid thing. You'd have to somehow be sure the redbook layer is nothing other than a downconverted copy of the hi-res layer though - otherwise hearing a difference doesn .......
130: Yes, you're correct... (13.20)
Posted by truthseekerprime on 2007-10-13, 13:17:08 (69.200.83.8)
...which implies it's at best very difficult given their set-up. Visit where? And if it's so easy, why not run a simple DBT of your own? I'll bet if you mail Moran and Meyer an SACD they'd run it thro .......
131: RE: Has anybody ever denied that? (8.05)
Posted by Ted Smith on 2007-10-13, 11:31:56 (71.112.95.63)
Howdy Sure, "Moran and Meyer found in fact that it's impossible." They didn't prove it impossible, they just didn't report a statistically significant number of people hearing it. Quite a different pr .......
132: Has anybody ever denied that? (8.14)
Posted by truthseekerprime on 2007-10-13, 11:02:02 (69.200.83.8)
If so I've never seen it. If you crank up the volume to the point you can hear 16 bit quantization noise, and if the recording your comparing and the equipment you're using has an intrinsic noise floo .......
133: Thanks Mr. Meyer. (nt) (7.80)
Posted by Pat D on 2007-10-12, 17:26:53 (74.106.240.93)
. - "It pertains to all men to know themselves and to be temperate." ---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright) .......
134: Hi-Res experimental details (4.76)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-10-12, 13:10:32 (71.233.247.75)
A number of posters on this section of the forum have asked for further details of the experiments David Moran and I ran and analyzed for our JAES paper, "Audibility of a CD-Standard A/D/A Loop Insert .......
135: "They're... way to risky for you." Oh geez, puh-leeze. (7.18)
Posted by clarkjohnsen on 2007-09-26, 09:16:22 (208.58.2.83)
>>You claim to have already done the polarity experiment, though you never wrote it up or published any description of it at all. AES Preprint Number 3169, "Proofs of an Absolute Polarity" -- to have .......
136: RE: Couple of issues occur to me. (1.98)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-09-25, 12:01:28 (71.233.247.75)
Hello, David. I've read your stuff with interest for some time now. The points you raise are relevant, I think; in the tests of high-bit versus CD-quality audio (co-authored with David Moran and publ .......
137: RE: "I give you The Church of the Latter Day Saints." So that's what it's going to be, is it? (2.73)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-09-24, 13:53:30 (71.233.247.75)
[Meyer claims reviewers can't hear CD player differences] "You got proof for that assertion? Preferably, DBTs published in a (this time) reputable journal? Put 'em up! Or..." It's not up to me to prov .......
138: Meanwhile this same illustrious author... (2.11)
Posted by tlyyra on 2007-09-24, 09:50:30 (83.248.105.85)
...of so many scholarly treatises of utmost quality and, indeed, simply incredible sophistication , has graced our readership with more bright sparkles from his indefatigable pen, that subtle and sobe .......
139: This URL may get you to it. (7.89)
Posted by clarkjohnsen on 2007-09-24, 09:33:57 (208.58.2.83)
I don't know... the window may close... Let me know and I'll work around it. clark .......
140: RE: Boston Audio Society Strikes Again! (9.51)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-09-24, 01:46:48 (24.63.6.232)
Atkinson wrote: "Don't let it be forgotten that E. Brad Meyer was doing blind tests at AES Conventions in the early 1990s to "prove" that TDK's latest cassette tape formulation produced recordings th .......
141: I wrote that quote, so I feel like responding... (4.12)
Posted by Axon on 2007-09-22, 19:56:13 (130.164.67.107)
I've already discussed a lot of this with David Moran on HydrogenAudio (see link). People who are using my complaint to justify attacking the paper as a whole, who haven't read the paper themselves, d .......
142: RE: That clears up a lot! (2.55)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-09-22, 05:08:50 (71.241.217.117)
"a memeber [sic] here reported after reading the full report that "... the test description and analysis is surprisingly thin. No equipment readout, no results breakdown by listener or location or wha .......
143: RE: That clears up a lot! (1.86)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-09-21, 20:37:38 (71.241.210.78)
"many mistakenly mistook the study as a scientific investigation" I'm not sure whether you're deliberately misunderstanding the situation, just to be provocative. If so, I shouldn't dignify your post .......
144: RE: A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents (1.65)
Posted by Pat D on 2007-09-21, 07:57:16 (74.106.240.93)
I have, of course, referred to E. Brad Meyer's article several times, and once more I link it below. Not all tube amps have an output impedance of around 1 ohm: it's often much higher. Hence, a 1 ohm .......
145: RE: A Challenge To Measurements & DBT Proponents (3.05)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-09-21, 06:45:24 (71.233.247.75)
Dear Tube Guy; Only in audio would anyone think to ask that someone prove the "validity" of double-blind testing, or entertain the bizarre notion that hiding the identity of a source somehow deafens t .......
146: RE: I'll admit I don't have enough experience with SACD/DVD-A... (1.90)
Posted by krabapple on 2007-09-20, 10:02:47 (216.165.126.102)
I have plenty of experience listening to SACDs, DVDA and CDs, Axon. Rest assured that for the home listener, separating the intrinsic 'sound' of the formats, from other possible factors, is well-nigh .......
147: RE: Boston Audio Society Strikes Again! (3.72)
Posted by EBradMeyer on 2007-09-20, 08:13:29 (71.233.247.75)
Mr. Hansen; I respectfully suggest that you and anyone else who cares to comment on our paper actually read it first. We sought diligently for source material, playback systems, and/or subjects to tu .......
148: RE: Boston Audio Society Strikes Again! (1.80)
Posted by drmoran@aol.com on 2007-09-19, 10:59:28 (128.89.68.47)
>> proven that we are all deaf. Haha, hardly! But this is wild stuff posted here. I sure wish all of you had taken the test. Esp since not one subject, of whatever experience or hearing bandwidth, got .......
149: A contrary test result (3.21)
Posted by John Atkinson on 2007-09-17, 01:06:46 (84.71.224.148)
>Brad Meyer and David Moran of the Boston Audio Society have (once >again) proven that we are all deaf. In my September "As We See It" essay, reprinted this morning at www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/ .......
150: Struggling for what? (8.86)
Posted by E-Stat on 2007-09-16, 09:11:00 (206.255.203.68)
...and then for him [Meyer] to backtrack and say that high rez *still* sounds better than CD... Axon's quote is clear to me. rw .......
151: Merely asked the question (4.71)
Posted by E-Stat on 2007-09-15, 15:46:09 (206.255.203.68)
Evidently, your experience in such matters is absent. No surprise. ...write it up and send it off to refute the claims in the paper. One of the lead authors, Meyer, has already done that and stated .......
152: Your observations are mostly well-taken. Still I have concerns. (4.14)
Posted by clarkjohnsen on 2007-09-14, 08:22:26 (208.58.2.83)
Look at two of their statements: "The CD has adequate bandwidth and dynamic range for any home reproduction task." Oh really? I’ll bet no attention whatsoever was devoted to low-level resolution and d .......
153: I confess that I'm confused (3.04)
Posted by E-Stat on 2007-09-13, 15:53:34 (206.255.203.68)
If the conclusion of the DBT is: "The test results show that the CD-quality A/D/A loop was undetectable at normal-to-loud listening levels, by any of the subjects, on any of the playback systems. The .......
154: Yeah, I've read it. (3.55)
Posted by Axon on 2007-09-13, 12:36:04 (130.164.72.112)
I do have to agree that the test description and analysis is surprisingly thin. No equipment readout, no results breakdown by listener or location or whatnot, no detailed description of listening venu .......
155: Touch. I'm just a little surprised at... (6.38)
Posted by Axon on 2007-09-12, 22:45:50 (70.240.14.48)
how hard everybody is focusing on the DBT itself, and not on the significant apology for SACD/DVD-A tacked on at the end of the article. That would only make sense to me if few people had actually rea .......
156: RE: So you haven't even read it... (3.17)
Posted by John Atkinson on 2007-09-12, 12:04:29 (65.213.7.6)
>...feel encouraged to "comment" anyway? I think you are misreading what I wrote. I made no comment at all on the Meyer/Moran tests or conclusions. I merely pointed out: 1) that this is not the first .......
157: And now I have permission to reveal his identity. (9.39)
Posted by clarkjohnsen on 2007-09-12, 09:54:19 (208.58.2.83)
It is Tony Lauck, ex scientific bigwig at Digital Equipment Corp (late, lamented). And a classical music devotee of considerable note, now doing some of his own recording. And I still have (temporary) .......
158: RE: Wha? The player was Pioneer? That wasn't in the paper. (4.86)
Posted by John Atkinson on 2007-09-12, 03:54:24 (4.237.92.226)
>That is one of the sore points of the paper - the equipment is not at all >described. To my regret, I have not yet read the paper as my JAES has not yet arrived. > How did you determine that? Earl .......
159: RE: Boston Audio Society Strikes Again! (8.14)
Posted by John Atkinson on 2007-09-11, 14:25:47 (65.213.7.6)
>Brad Meyer and David Moran of the Boston Audio Society have (once again) >proven that we are all deaf. Don't let it be forgotten that E. Brad Meyer was doing blind tests at AES Conventions in the ea .......
160: RE: They did well... (11.96)
Posted by theaudiohobby on 2007-09-11, 10:09:37 (89.243.121.187)
At least they managed to narrow down instances under which differences are audible. As opposed to what folks think is audible. If anybody disagrees, they should perform their own tests and show otherw .......
161: Boston Audio Society Strikes Again! (7.05)
Posted by Charles Hansen on 2007-09-11, 09:44:35 (209.97.232.186)
Brad Meyer and David Moran of the Boston Audio Society have (once again) proven that we are all deaf. Here is the abstract from their article in the latest issue of the AES journal: Claims both publis .......
162: Well, you seem to have almost thought about finally supporting your claims, but you didn't. (4.78)
Posted by Posy Rorer on 2007-06-15, 22:27:10 (67.68.27.49)
>>Well, that's some progress at least. None with you to report, however, since I see you have yet again failed to respond to my specific requests for support of your pseudoscientific claims re: DBTs. .......
163: Well, you seem to have started the Stereophile article but didn't read through it. (1.60)
Posted by Pat D on 2007-06-15, 21:27:56 (74.106.240.93)
Well, that's some progress at least. PR "This is a reference to an article in Stereophile showing that Stereophile's test of amps was invalid." No it was a URL to the article. In part it discusses th .......
164: Re: Ah HAH. Now we're getting somewhere. (2.38)
Posted by Pat D on 2007-04-14, 08:12:37 (74.106.240.93)
It seems to me that one of the chief reasons many tube amps sound different is that many of them have a high output impedance, which varies with frequency, to make things more complicated. Many of the .......
165: Re: Regarding Boyk and Sussman, Cheever, etc. (2.87)
Posted by john curl on 2007-03-14, 13:58:39 (67.180.4.250)
Thanks very much Andy. Many years ago I saw part 5, but not part 6, and there are many facts that are brought out in this series of articles. In part 5, it is interesting that Baxandall proves that t .......
166: An ABX is not required. (4.67)
Posted by Pat D on 2007-01-09, 14:07:33 (74.106.240.93)
TG54 "This is an honest question, so hopefully someone who's a proponent will take the time to explain why this is so, but first a "brief" explination of why it's being asked. It seems that everytime .......
167: Re: Too much thinking ... and not enough listening (1.23)
Posted by tomservo on 2007-01-04, 06:38:06 (204.87.188.80)
Hi Bill Originally we did record in the warehouse all in the same spot but it was decided that the SH-50 had an unfair advantage in its directivity which while it is what people would benefit from ind .......
168: Re: Cool... glad it's working out. (nt) (2.56)
Posted by Todd Krieger on 2006-09-16, 19:26:19 (68.3.107.217)
All I need now is a utility to convert the original DVD audio to .wav with as little alteration of the signal as possible.... The test track was from the audio portion of Aleks Syntek's "Mundo Live" D .......
169: Re: Tom Nousaine... (2.87)
Posted by Pat D on 2006-09-09, 12:40:13 (74.106.240.93)
Sorry, there are enough DBTs which show *some* amps do sound different, reports of one can be found on the Stereophile site, another report is on the Sound & Vision site, for examples. So I don't beli .......
170: Re: What happens when there is no negative feedback, A subjective perspective. (3.49)
Posted by john curl on 2006-08-23, 10:11:35 (24.7.86.40)
Wow! Guess they must have had a bad night, the day you went! For the record, Jon Meyer and I,( Jon probably designed the loudspeakers for the PA the night that you might have attended, since my speak .......
171: Re: Perhaps A Different Idea On DBT's? (3.23)
Posted by Pat D on 2006-06-06, 08:54:57 (69.195.219.94)
I don't have copies of the articles, but I know Daniel Shanefield did some. I think one of the articles by Shanefield shown in the references on Eyespy's site or on the ABX site describes one. Mtrycra .......
172: Re: 3rd harmonic distortion (2.81)
Posted by john curl on 2004-12-29, 12:25:17 (67.169.50.145)
Rolf, I received your E-mail. I will attempt to send you the info I have. The analysis was developed for an advanced course by Dr. R.G. Meyer and Dr. Don Pederson, (and perhaps others as well) as work .......
173: what's to misunderstand about "been there, done that, no mystery"? (4.54)
Posted by Commuteman on 2003-09-24, 22:35:15 (68.164.27.68)
Your ORIGINAL post (the "au contraire" one) was completely unintelligible to me, so I didn't respond to IT, other than to assume (perhaps incorrectly) that your attack on Clark was in defense of Meye .......
174: Re: I'm simply responding to the original post about Meyer.. (6.03)
Posted by Dan Banquer on 2003-09-24, 15:14:21 (207.172.97.187)
Once again you have misunderstood my original post. I guess it just doesn't fit the hole you are trying to squeeze me into. Oh well. .......
175: I'm simply responding to the original post about Meyer.. (4.36)
Posted by Commuteman on 2003-09-23, 08:56:18 (198.182.5.173)
His comment that he lost interest in electronics after it became possible to create them so perfectly that they ceased to be important (to paraphrase). If you agree with his position, then I wonder w .......
176: Dan, are you saying that an average receiver sounds identical to your amps (3.62)
Posted by Commuteman on 2003-09-22, 18:23:34 (198.182.5.173)
if it meets the criteria described below? "Meyer lost interest in talking about audio electronics when he concluded that it was possible to build them with sufficiently flat response and low enough di .......
177: "The inference in your post is... (7.29)
Posted by clarkjohnsen on 2003-09-21, 10:14:27 (206.243.39.17)
...that you see no reason to talk to Meyer about anything except frequency response, distortion and noise in audio amplifiers." No, no, no! It is *he* who would never talk about audio in terms of *an .......
178: Re: A ringing endorsement of meter-reading from the Boston Audio Society. (4.19)
Posted by Norm Strong on 2003-09-20, 10:54:55 (12.228.89.226)
The inference in your post is that you see no reason to talk to Meyer about anything except frequency response, distortion and noise in audio amplifiers. On those points I have to agree with Meyer; th .......
179: A ringing endorsement of meter-reading from the Boston Audio Society. (6.11)
Posted by clarkjohnsen on 2003-09-20, 07:44:38 (206.243.39.17)
In their latest flyer we learn that E. Brad Meyer is entertaining the some 14 regulars at his suburban listening room. Brad, an old friend whom I rarely see anymore -- keep reading -- except at funera .......
180: Re: You show me a cable with .... (5.19)
Posted by Pat D on 2003-08-28, 19:04:09 (156.34.220.117)
Series resistance varies with the gauge, length and to a small extent, materials. It will affect the level, and depending on the impedance curve of the speakers, the frequency response. This has been .......
181: Re: I like this explanation (3.52)
Posted by john curl on 2003-08-22, 16:00:27 (67.74.35.2)
Peter, I would like to inject in here, that in 1974, Jon Meyer and I had our really good research lab. We used B&K 4133 condenser mikes that had an extended response to 40 KHz or so, and a pretty good .......
182: Re: Loudspeaker Distortion (2.87)
Posted by john curl on 2003-08-04, 16:33:34 (66.81.220.239)
Dan, we have looked at this problem over the decades. Jon Meyer (a famous speaker designer) and I started talking together, then working together about 35 years ago. We even shared a complete audio l .......
183: volterra series (5.63)
Posted by 13th Duke of Wymbourne on 2003-07-22, 19:50:53 (198.62.10.12)
I viewed a set of RF IC Design video lectures by Prof. Meyer from UCB. When it got to Volterra series my eyes glazed over! Regards 13DoW .......
184: Re: Quick change of subject - audio nostalgia (4.22)
Posted by john curl on 2003-07-09, 10:18:19 (66.81.218.221)
It is amazing what a good phono cartridge can bring out of a vinyl record. In 1974-1975, Jon Meyer and I had an audio lab in Switzerland. We had some of the best measuring equipment in the world at th .......
185: Re: That's what I was thinking.... (2.67)
Posted by john curl on 2003-05-08, 14:32:38 (66.81.219.176)
First, higher orders are present in most active devices, because they deviate from their ideal model due to different processing. This is a potential problem with Spice models, and why I tend not to u .......
Found total of 185 records, Query: Meyer Moran in Propeller Head Plaza, Time: 0 sec.