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Vinyl Asylum: Frictional heating of vinyl by Mark Kelly Welcome Licorice Pizza (LP) lovers! Setup guides and Vinyl FAQ. |
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One of my favourite websites is TribologyABC.com, source of many useful calculators and much help with the design of bearings. I recently bought the associated book "Advanced Engineering Design" and am steadily ploughing through it.On reading the section on frictional heating in a ball on surface contact I realised that the same calculation could be brought to bear on the chestnut regarding the heating effect of a diamond stylus on vinyl. The appropriate calculator is 5.5 on the website.
If we use appropriate values for the diamond / vinyl interface, making worst case assumptions where values are hard to determine, we can calculate a temperature rise for contact patch of the vinyl surface. The answer comes out to about 10oC. No, that's not a typo, that's 10 degrees celsius or 18 degrees Fahrenheit.
The 24 hour rule is dead. Don't start with the stuff about slow recovery after deformation, it's called stress creep and the recovery time is proportional to the creep strain which in turn is proportional to the stress duration, so the recovery period is of the same order of magnitude as the stress period.
For those who want to check my results, I used the following values:
Thermal conductivity diamond = 1000 W/mK.
Thermal conductivity PVC = 0.16 W/mK
Thermal diffusivity PVC = 1.2 x 10^-7 m^2/s
H (Hardness of interface) = 1 GPa (the hardness of the softer material dominates)
F = 15 N (1.5 g VTF)
V = 0.5 m/s
mu = 0.4 (a reasonable value for PVC/ diamond)
Assumed radius of contact patch = 70 um (deliberately large as the frictional coefficient of polymer materials increases as the contact pressure decreases, in contrast with classic solid bodies where the two are independent. This is why wide tyres work.)
By the way since we are working with a soft polymer Ar is roughly equal to An and it is easy to throw the calculator out of whack by giving values which would make Ar > An (which is impossible). AFAICS this does not affect the accuracy the model.
Mark Kelly
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Topic - Frictional heating of vinyl - Mark Kelly 07:08:49 10/27/06 ( 48)
- Nice post - Analog Scott 17:50:59 10/28/06 ( 1)
Nice that someone at last writes something that makes sence about this subject - andersbjerager 08:18:25 10/28/06 ( 0)
How hot does the stylus get? - Eric H 21:27:56 10/27/06 ( 1)
- See below - Mark Kelly 21:45:56 10/27/06 ( 0)
Error notice - Mark Kelly 20:21:51 10/27/06 ( 3)
- Keep going ... pretty soon you'll be showing a cooling as the LP plays. LOL - bjh 21:04:12 10/27/06 ( 2)
- No conflict - Mark Kelly 21:28:10 10/27/06 ( 1)
- Oh, OK , I follow ... sorry about that, nt - bjh 23:02:29 10/27/06 ( 0)
Re: Frictional heating of vinyl - keldasdad 19:39:14 10/27/06 ( 2)
- Re: Frictional heating of vinyl - caffeinator 20:04:01 10/27/06 ( 1)
- Re: Frictional heating of vinyl - keldasdad 21:52:18 10/27/06 ( 0)
Maybe confirm this with an infrared camera? - Axon 17:08:47 10/27/06 ( 5)
- I'll have a Raytek thanks. You paying? - Mark Kelly 17:22:13 10/27/06 ( 4)
- A Vermont friend from Snell Infared just visited me in Alaska. . . - hiatt@alaska.net 23:00:45 10/27/06 ( 3)
- Can you find out what the spot resolution is? - Mark Kelly 23:29:48 10/27/06 ( 1)
- I will get back to you on the resolution and some prediction . . . - hiatt@alaska.net 08:05:53 10/28/06 ( 0)
- As a follow up, should a baseline temperature reading be taken . . . - hiatt@alaska.net 23:05:25 10/27/06 ( 0)
Steven Wright quote: "I have a CD burner.........my fireplace.." - Scottrt 16:42:19 10/27/06 ( 2)
- I wouldn't listen to anyone who builds a house on a freeway median, nt - hiatt@alaska.net 15:53:00 10/28/06 ( 0)
Re: Steven Wright quote: "I have a CD burner.........my fireplace.." - Biff 13:15:20 10/28/06 ( 0)
But can't you have plastic deformation caused by mechanical stress? - NewStevo 11:21:22 10/27/06 ( 5)
- sure but the return is going to be a function of the shore hardness of the vinyl - Analog Scott 17:54:11 10/28/06 ( 1)
- How long do you think it takes to bounce back? (nt) - John Elison 18:29:53 10/28/06 ( 0)
Only if you exceed the yield stress. - Mark Kelly 16:39:40 10/27/06 ( 1)
- Re: Only if you exceed the yield stress. - caffeinator 19:18:25 10/27/06 ( 0)
I think this was basically the premise of the articles that I read--plastic deformation rather than heat problems. (nt) - John Elison 11:34:44 10/27/06 ( 0)
Re: Frictional heating of vinyl - Marshall W 10:28:47 10/27/06 ( 3)
- Re: Frictional heating of vinyl - John Elison 10:56:16 10/27/06 ( 2)
- Re: Frictional heating of vinyl - caffeinator 19:08:42 10/27/06 ( 1)
- Re: higher signal levels - ffrr 19:28:47 10/27/06 ( 0)
Thanks for posting this! (nt) - IBSmiester 10:15:24 10/27/06 ( 0)
Re: Frictional heating of vinyl - caffeinator 10:04:34 10/27/06 ( 4)
- No that's quite wrong - Mark Kelly 16:42:42 10/27/06 ( 2)
- Re: No that's quite wrong - caffeinator 20:01:30 10/27/06 ( 1)
- Quite right. - Mark Kelly 20:16:34 10/27/06 ( 0)
Re: Frictional heating of vinyl - caffeinator 10:12:45 10/27/06 ( 0)
Van Den Hul - JRags 09:03:18 10/27/06 ( 1)
- Diamond heating. - Mark Kelly 16:45:30 10/27/06 ( 0)
Oh Gawd . . . . Teresa's gonna be miffed . . .;8^) /nt\ - HenryH 08:24:18 10/27/06 ( 1)
- LMAO...a lot of people are gonna be miffed, LOL nt - pretzel_logic 11:34:27 10/27/06 ( 0)
Bless you Mark Kelly.....like I said, I follow the 24 second rule...... - tubesforever 08:16:26 10/27/06 ( 7)
- A simple observation that verifies your result. - jsm 10:46:22 10/27/06 ( 1)
- "Records don't feel at all warm after playing. " But CDs do. )MT( - J. S. Bach 16:05:59 10/27/06 ( 0)
Re: Bless you Mark Kelly.....like I said, I follow the 24 second rule...... - John Elison 10:39:59 10/27/06 ( 4)
- I have not seen playing albums as a fire starter in the Boy Scout Handbook....;-) - tubesforever 16:20:15 10/27/06 ( 0)
Ha-Ha that's funny John! - nightdoggy 15:39:18 10/27/06 ( 0)
HA! I beat you to that observation ... - bjh 12:02:53 10/27/06 ( 0)
And while the bunny is flaming it would cleaning the grooves at the same time. nt - pretzel_logic 11:32:51 10/27/06 ( 1)