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Propeller Head Plaza: Re: More answers by morricab Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: Re: More answers posted by andy19191 on December 20, 2005 at 07:16:36:
"Would you not consider fidelity to be a single well defined criteria?"Sorry, I would just like to comment on this statement. Fidelity to an oscilloscope is not the same as fidelity to a human listener. Types and levels of distortion that look to be of no consequence on a computer screen can have profound effect on the listener. So the question of fidelity is not as easy to assess as you propose.
I hope you will agree that exact reproduction of the source material would be an ideal definition for fidelity; however, the question that arises is this, if a piece of gear measures nearly perfect and yet still doesn't sound right (subjectively speaking) then why is that small residual imperfection playing such an important role in the sound that is reproduced? Why is another piece of gear measureably further from an exact replication of the source material subjectively much closer?
If it is impossible to make a truly distortion free amplifier, then isn't it smarter to put that distortion in the blind spot of human awareness rather than make it really small but sitting right in the open where even very tiny levels are obvious? Kind of how Sony uses noise shaping in SACD, not to eliminate the problems but to push them where they are outside human perception. Amplifier design for the last 4 decades (until recently) was obssessed with pushing it down as low as possible, and they did push it low, but invariably pushing it where it was the most obvious. The result was often poor sound quality. Poorer measuring but better sounding amps tend to have their problems more in the human blind spots.
This brings up a further question: Who are the engineers designing high fidelity gear for, the test bench or human listeners? When designers make a real effort to apply what has been learned to date about psychoacoustics to electronics design then we might begin to see a directed progress in sound quality rather than the hit or miss results we see now. The sound of gear would also likely begin to converge (as it should if fidelity to the recording and to how humans hear is the goal.).
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Topic - It's time to change the rules in Prophead - Silver Eared John 11:38:51 12/14/05 ( 216)
- Does an inability to geek out over MP3 partly due to my own experience w telecom codecs disqualify me as an objectivist? - Tom Dawson 18:02:52 12/21/05 ( 1)
- So, then, y'all mean MP3 is a telecom codec? - Silver Eared John 10:29:01 01/3/06 ( 0)
Resistance is futile... - andy_c 20:56:00 12/19/05 ( 3)
- Re: Resistance is futile... - Todd Krieger 09:16:18 12/20/05 ( 0)
Re: Resistance is futile... - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 06:26:32 12/20/05 ( 0)
Re: Resistance is futile... - kerr 04:45:55 12/20/05 ( 0)
Re: It's time to change the rules in Prophead - Dan Banquer 18:50:49 12/19/05 ( 10)
- Please do... - mkuller 10:28:45 12/20/05 ( 0)
"...John; let's both stop posting here..." - soulfood 19:57:23 12/19/05 ( 8)
- Re: "...John; let's both stop posting here..." - Dan Banquer 05:12:06 12/20/05 ( 7)
- Oh really, there's a guy below ... - bjh 05:17:28 12/20/05 ( 6)
- Re: Oh really, there's a guy below ... - Dan Banquer 05:19:12 12/20/05 ( 5)
- And as far as englihtening that - bjh 05:38:38 12/20/05 ( 4)
- Idot child strikes again. - Dan Banquer 10:42:31 12/21/05 ( 3)
- We're discussing DBT tests done by the Pro guys. You cover that! in your FAQ. Get a grip for Christ's sake! nt - bjh 10:51:27 12/21/05 ( 2)
- Re: We're discussing DBT tests done by the Pro guys. You cover that! in your FAQ. Get a grip for Christ's sake! nt - Dan Banquer 11:04:46 12/21/05 ( 1)
- Hey dweeb ... - bjh 08:43:37 12/22/05 ( 0)
What qualifies you to belong on such a select forum? - morricab 06:46:54 12/19/05 ( 14)
- Y'all can't read, I guess? - Silver Eared John 09:07:42 12/20/05 ( 8)
- Re: Y'all can't read, I guess? - morricab 05:52:55 12/21/05 ( 3)
- Re: Y'all can't read, I guess? - Pat D 09:04:03 12/22/05 ( 2)
- He does what he has to do, Pat. - Silver Eared John 13:34:06 12/25/05 ( 1)
- I'm just looking for a more favorable interpretation. - Pat D 08:46:53 12/28/05 ( 0)
- How that response related to the questions in the morricab's post ... - bjh 09:43:21 12/20/05 ( 3)
- His question was dishonest, slick... - Silver Eared John 18:40:45 12/21/05 ( 2)
- Re: His question was dishonest, slick... - morricab 03:59:20 12/22/05 ( 1)
- Re: His question was dishonest, slick... - Pat D 08:59:58 12/22/05 ( 0)
He has a huge ego... - mkuller 11:39:38 12/19/05 ( 2)
- Re: He has a huge ego... - john curl 14:22:21 12/19/05 ( 1)
- I hold y'all in contempt, John... - Silver Eared John 12:18:19 01/6/06 ( 0)
I'm told he works for Microsoft... nt - clarkjohnsen 09:31:27 12/19/05 ( 1)
- Don't think so - E-Stat 12:12:24 12/20/05 ( 0)
Re: It's time to change the rules in Prophead - andy19191 05:48:47 12/19/05 ( 86)
- Don't be so glum, there's a perfect opportunity for *you* to learn something. - bjh 08:11:00 12/19/05 ( 85)
- Re: Don't be so glum, there's a perfect opportunity for *you* to learn something. - andy19191 16:11:27 12/19/05 ( 62)
- Re: Don't be so glum, there's a perfect opportunity for *you* to learn something. - Dan Banquer 16:34:40 12/19/05 ( 61)
- So what you're saying is that - E-Stat 17:14:41 12/19/05 ( 60)
- I couldn't possibly say anything that you won't deliberately misinterpret. - Dan Banquer 18:01:50 12/19/05 ( 59)
- Humor me here - E-Stat 18:32:33 12/19/05 ( 58)
- That would call for you to have a sense of humor. - Dan Banquer 18:40:28 12/19/05 ( 57)
- Re: That would call for you to have a sense of humor. - john curl 09:46:13 12/22/05 ( 5)
- Re: That would call for you to have a sense of humor. - john curl 15:02:13 12/22/05 ( 3)
- Re: That would call for you to have a sense of humor. - Dan Banquer 11:56:26 12/23/05 ( 0)
- And, BTW, just in case it's not completely clear, I mean - bjh 08:55:47 12/23/05 ( 0)
- Ahhhh! Good specs! If they're really really good I'll be buying two! ;-) nt - bjh 20:24:25 12/22/05 ( 0)
- Re: That would call for you to have a sense of humor. - bjh 11:59:18 12/22/05 ( 0)
- Re: That would call for you to have a sense of humor. - morricab 06:06:24 12/21/05 ( 1)
- Re: That would call for you to have a sense of humor. - Dan Banquer 10:26:28 12/21/05 ( 0)
- Why then don't you explain them to - E-Stat 18:57:08 12/19/05 ( 48)
- If I Only Had A Brain - Mudcat 03:53:14 12/20/05 ( 1)
- Why don't you ask Dan why - E-Stat 04:46:02 12/20/05 ( 0)
- Re: Why then don't you explain them to - andy19191 03:39:15 12/20/05 ( 44)
- Answers - E-Stat 04:59:39 12/20/05 ( 43)
- Re: Answers - andy19191 06:00:56 12/20/05 ( 33)
- More answers - E-Stat 06:17:45 12/20/05 ( 31)
- Re: More answers - andy19191 07:16:36 12/20/05 ( 30)
- Re: More answers - john curl 10:46:40 12/21/05 ( 3)
- Re: More answers - andy19191 12:21:54 12/21/05 ( 2)
- Re: More answers - john curl 13:50:12 12/21/05 ( 1)
- Re: More answers - andy19191 14:43:47 12/21/05 ( 0)
- Re: More answers - morricab 12/21/05 06:28:51 12/21/05 ( 3)
- Re: More answers - andy19191 07:51:24 12/21/05 ( 1)
- Re: More answers - Tom Dawson 15:09:41 12/22/05 ( 0)
- Excellent post! Thank you! (nt) - kerr 07:07:06 12/21/05 ( 0)
- Re: More answers - E-Stat 07:43:06 12/20/05 ( 21)
- Re: More answers - andy19191 06:49:45 12/21/05 ( 20)
- Re: More answers - Tom Dawson 13:34:19 12/22/05 ( 0)
- It seems we approach the requirements of an amp quite differently - E-Stat 07:34:57 12/21/05 ( 12)
- Re: It seems we approach the requirements of an amp quite differently - andy19191 09:15:53 12/21/05 ( 11)
- Re: It seems we approach the requirements of an amp quite differently - john curl 10:57:33 12/21/05 ( 8)
- Re: It seems we approach the requirements of an amp quite differently - andy19191 11:33:18 12/21/05 ( 7)
- Re: It seems we approach the requirements of an amp quite differently - john curl 14:06:02 12/21/05 ( 6)
- Re: It seems we approach the requirements of an amp quite differently - andy19191 14:57:34 12/21/05 ( 5)
- Is English your first language? - mkuller 10:55:04 12/22/05 ( 4)
- Re: Is English your first language? - andy19191 08:23:03 01/13/06 ( 0)
- The sad part is that some of the engineers - E-Stat 15:58:45 12/22/05 ( 0)
- Re: Is English your first language? - john curl 15:09:44 12/22/05 ( 1)
- One thing we can be certain of... - mkuller 12:33:19 12/23/05 ( 0)
- Next set of answers - E-Stat 09:42:15 12/21/05 ( 1)
- Re: Next set of answers - kerr 10:40:34 12/21/05 ( 0)
- Re: More answers - morricab 07:06:36 12/21/05 ( 5)
- Re: More answers - andy19191 09:58:10 12/21/05 ( 4)
- Re: More answers - morricab 14:06:43 12/21/05 ( 3)
- Re: More answers - john curl 14:18:16 12/21/05 ( 2)
- Re: More answers - bjh 15:39:10 12/21/05 ( 1)
- There's nothing wrong with... - mkuller 10:45:35 12/22/05 ( 0)
What I find interesting is - bjh 06:09:24 12/20/05 ( 0)
Re: Answers - Dan Banquer 05:10:05 12/20/05 ( 8)
- I wasn't asking for an infomercial - E-Stat 05:50:52 12/20/05 ( 3)
- Re: I wasn't asking for an infomercial - Dan Banquer 10:19:23 12/21/05 ( 2)
- Re: I wasn't asking for an infomercial - morricab 04:16:06 12/22/05 ( 0)
- Grumpy as ever - E-Stat 10:33:46 12/21/05 ( 0)
Well then how about - bjh 05:12:48 12/20/05 ( 3)
- Re: Well then how about - Dan Banquer 05:17:34 12/20/05 ( 2)
- Re: Well then how about - morricab 06:42:32 12/21/05 ( 1)
- Re: Well then how about - Dan Banquer 10:09:56 12/21/05 ( 0)
All anyone needed to get the essential point ... - bjh 22:31:01 12/19/05 ( 0)
Warning!.Troll Alert! - Dan Banquer 08:38:17 12/19/05 ( 21)
- Curious response - E-Stat 15:09:10 12/19/05 ( 19)
- Indeed, yours is curious. - Pat D 05:20:39 12/20/05 ( 9)
- If you know anything about JH - E-Stat 11:20:32 12/20/05 ( 4)
- Well, I can still look up some of what he wrote. - Pat D 21:22:49 12/20/05 ( 3)
- I guess the answer is that I'm way past the question of "do they sound different" - E-Stat 04:59:22 12/21/05 ( 2)
- No, you bypass it. - Pat D 20:42:58 12/21/05 ( 1)
- That was the term he used! - E-Stat 15:49:02 12/22/05 ( 0)
- Geat ... - bjh 06:03:47 12/20/05 ( 3)
- I'm hardly responsible for what others assert. - Pat D 21:14:41 12/20/05 ( 2)
- LOL! Whatever, just try to *stay* reformed, ok? LOL nt - bjh 22:01:54 12/20/05 ( 1)
- I am not responsible for your misunderstandings, eithe (nt)r. - Pat D 00:06:05 12/21/05 ( 0)
If that's what you think..... - Dan Banquer 18:21:25 12/19/05 ( 7)
- Why do we need to bring in other posts - E-Stat 18:39:55 12/19/05 ( 6)
- Re: Why do we need to bring in other posts - Dan Banquer 18:44:56 12/19/05 ( 5)
- Actually, I'm an IT guy - E-Stat 18:53:10 12/19/05 ( 4)
- Re: Actually, I'm an IT guy - Dan Banquer 05:16:11 12/20/05 ( 3)
- Re: Actually, I'm an IT guy - morricab 06:48:42 12/21/05 ( 0)
- So does the kid who keeps flunking the 10th grade... - mkuller 11:41:14 12/20/05 ( 0)
- So, we - E-Stat 05:35:25 12/20/05 ( 0)
Re: Curious response - kerr 17:51:15 12/19/05 ( 0)
Okay, Dan, we know your opinion in this area. -t - bwkendall 12:25:45 12/19/05 ( 0)
"Greene, Banquer, Eddy, Geddes, myself, etc, deserve their own forum, " - Ivan303 10:10:16 12/17/05 ( 2)
- Yeah, right, slick... - Silver Eared John 01:28:43 12/18/05 ( 1)
- LOL! Glad to hear Y'all found your Y'alls. - Ivan303 08:22:26 12/18/05 ( 0)
Since DBTers are virtual clones of each other ,would the forum consist of one person or many?-NT - lancelot 07:15:51 12/16/05 ( 25)
- Re: Since DBTers are virtual clones of each other ,would the forum consist of one person or many?-NT - acres verde 13:49:32 12/16/05 ( 0)
Y'all claims are fraudulent. - Silver Eared John 11:35:29 12/16/05 ( 23)
- Re: Y'all claims are fraudulent. - Dan Banquer 14:18:36 12/16/05 ( 0)
Well - lancelot 11:49:53 12/16/05 ( 21)
- Re: Well - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 14:42:31 12/16/05 ( 20)
- Where do you guys get such nonsense. - Pat D 22:15:58 12/16/05 ( 19)
- Newsflash... - mkuller 11:52:21 12/17/05 ( 18)
- Re: Yup - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 14:18:38 12/17/05 ( 17)
- Re: Yup - Dan Banquer 15:59:28 12/18/05 ( 8)
- Great, now I've got the ideal post to point the "no differences" crowd to .. - bjh 22:28:41 12/18/05 ( 3)
- If I had a village... you could be my idiot.. - Dan Banquer 03:23:49 12/19/05 ( 2)
- High-end? Dream on pee-wee, you couldn't even make it in the Pro world! LOL - bjh 07:29:42 12/19/05 ( 1)
- Wow, y'all really want to take responsibility for that, now? - Silver Eared John 12:21:18 01/6/06 ( 0)
- Wow...there's one! (nt) - mkuller 13:22:00 12/18/05 ( 7)
- There's all sorts of data out there - E-Stat 12:23:30 12/20/05 ( 4)
- Do you have anything besides prejudice? - Pat D 00:01:28 12/21/05 ( 1)
- Experience - E-Stat 04:44:33 12/21/05 ( 0)
- Ah! Obviously not a boating enthusiast. :) - bjh 17:02:31 12/20/05 ( 1)
- In need of an... - E-Stat 20:10:11 12/20/05 ( 0)
- Wow, y'all, you said there weren't any... - Silver Eared John 09:13:05 12/20/05 ( 1)
- Please show me where I said that... - mkuller 10:45:40 12/20/05 ( 0)
Re: It's time to change the rules in Prophead - Pat D 02:36:58 12/16/05 ( 2)
- Change is not necessarily better. - soulfood 09:08:33 12/16/05 ( 1)
- Re: Change is not necessarily better. - Pat D 12:43:20 12/16/05 ( 0)
Objectivists could have their own music forum too! - kerr 16:31:31 12/15/05 ( 2)
- Then why is there a cable asylum, slick? - Silver Eared John 16:57:56 12/15/05 ( 1)
- Not sure, really! - kerr 04:55:09 12/16/05 ( 0)
Wow! A whole, big post without one "Y'all!" (nt) - Al Sekela 15:53:18 12/15/05 ( 21)
- You spoke too soon - E-Stat 05:54:14 12/16/05 ( 20)
- Crackerbonics - Tom Dawson 15:37:08 12/16/05 ( 2)
- Y'all way too far south, I think... - Silver Eared John 23:26:49 12/16/05 ( 0)
- That's hilarious ! (nt) - E-Stat 18:12:51 12/16/05 ( 0)
Re: plurals - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 11:35:09 12/16/05 ( 16)
- Nope - E-Stat 12:37:35 12/16/05 ( 15)
- Y'all are idiots. - Silver Eared John 23:23:40 12/16/05 ( 4)
- That's why I call you the faux Southerner :) - E-Stat 07:05:42 12/17/05 ( 3)
- I'm surprised you can count that high. - Dan Banquer 18:31:44 12/19/05 ( 2)
- Y'all, Y'all, Y'all... - Silver Eared John 09:13:50 12/20/05 ( 1)
- Approximately - E-Stat 10:22:59 12/21/05 ( 0)
- Re: Nope - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 15:01:23 12/16/05 ( 1)
- Next time, watch "Gone With the Wind" :) (nt) - E-Stat 18:14:05 12/16/05 ( 0)
Re: Nope - Ken Perkins 12:51:53 12/16/05 ( 7)
- I don't debate the notion - E-Stat 12:55:58 12/16/05 ( 6)
- Re: I don't debate the notion..becasue you don't have a clue. nt - Dan Banquer 18:33:43 12/19/05 ( 1)
- You missed commenting on my response to Crackerbonics (nt) - E-Stat 19:08:33 12/19/05 ( 0)
- It's funny - Ken Perkins 13:14:10 12/16/05 ( 3)
- It's an important part of the language, and should be official. - andy_c 21:20:02 12/16/05 ( 0)
- It's not neccessarily acceptable... - mkuller 13:50:07 12/16/05 ( 1)
- And, y'all keep up the stalkin', don't y'all. - Silver Eared John 23:25:11 12/16/05 ( 0)
Wait - this is a great idea... - mkuller 13:50:55 12/15/05 ( 3)
- Call it JJ's Rubber Room? Jes' funnin', y'all:):)nt - Tom Dawson 14:08:41 12/15/05 ( 1)
- I see y'all still a wee bit confused about who is who - Silver Eared John 16:16:30 12/15/05 ( 0)
Wow, you are right. Get him out of all other forums. nt - Norm 14:01:02 12/15/05 ( 0)
maybe it ought to be polygraph asylum - tunenut 09:36:19 12/15/05 ( 3)
- Re: maybe it ought to be polygraph asylum - Lynn 18:21:10 12/17/05 ( 0)
Polygraphs are quackery, too. - Silver Eared John 12:21:30 12/15/05 ( 0)
LOL! True. -t - bwkendall 11:35:17 12/15/05 ( 0)
An equally good case for changing the name to "whiners woad too" (nt) - soulfood 09:18:29 12/15/05 ( 0)
I Support The Idea.... - Todd Krieger 00:48:19 12/15/05 ( 0)
I sure hope I have better things to do when I'm retired - E-Stat 17:32:25 12/14/05 ( 0)
What are you saying? - bjh 17:18:38 12/14/05 ( 8)
- Y'all gotta exercise them fallacies, don't y'all? - Silver Eared John 12:22:22 12/15/05 ( 2)
- When sanity and your belief system automatically morph into "THE TRUTH"then rational thought stops!-NT - lancelot 08:34:52 12/16/05 ( 0)
- A real man accepts being deleted and moves on, your post proved you to be a puerile hebetudinous desipience. nt - bjh 15:59:37 12/15/05 ( 0)
Re: What are you saying? - Todd Krieger 00:52:00 12/15/05 ( 4)
- Enquiring minds want to know..... - bwkendall 14:31:20 12/15/05 ( 2)
- The Best Answer- Look At The Thread.... - Todd Krieger 12:39:51 12/19/05 ( 1)
- Hydrogenaudio - kerr 09:40:03 12/20/05 ( 0)
Y'all really embarrassed yourself there, didn't ya, sport? - Silver Eared John 12:20:34 12/15/05 ( 0)
April first is not for many months. nt - Norm 16:29:44 12/14/05 ( 0)
Hmmmm.....I think I'll hang out here for awhile. - bwkendall 14:52:21 12/14/05 ( 8)
- Re: Hmmmm.....I think I'll hang out here for awhile. - Pat D 02:24:31 12/16/05 ( 1)
- Re: Hmmmm.....I think I'll hang out here for awhile. - kerr 05:02:27 12/16/05 ( 0)
Which one? - Silver Eared John 15:40:46 12/14/05 ( 5)
- Codec artifacts... - mkuller 13:55:24 12/16/05 ( 3)
- Yeah, look at it... - Silver Eared John 23:29:02 12/16/05 ( 2)
- Codecs... - mkuller 13:40:15 12/17/05 ( 1)
- Well, I can't be responsible for any experience y'all got... - Silver Eared John 18:43:37 12/21/05 ( 0)
That's great when you lower the bar - E-Stat 13:21:40 12/16/05 ( 0)
Re: It's time to change the rules in Prophead - Dan Banquer 14:35:01 12/14/05 ( 0)
LOL!... - mkuller 12:09:33 12/14/05 ( 8)
- NOT - Mudcat 04:19:35 12/20/05 ( 0)
Re: LOL!... - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 14:11:26 12/14/05 ( 6)
- Re: LOL!... - Steve Eddy 12:15:58 12/15/05 ( 1)
- How's sales of yer pretty little Toa? Selling well to the DBT and objectivist crowd? I've heard they're a ... - bjh 16:44:18 12/15/05 ( 0)
Re: LOL!... - john curl 15:16:22 12/14/05 ( 3)
- Y'all have shown no reasoning, just namecalling... - Silver Eared John 15:37:24 12/14/05 ( 2)
- Re: Y'all have shown no reasoning, just namecalling... - john curl 15:52:32 12/14/05 ( 1)
- What's to look at... - Silver Eared John 16:22:25 12/14/05 ( 0)