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Critic's Corner: Original Sony Redbook formal trials...any journalist participation? by PeAK Discuss a review. Provide constructive feedback. Talk to the industry. |
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This was prompted by how impressed I was by my recent purchase of my 5th REDBOOK playback unit over twenty years:
Many people using vinyl had heard of Telarc and their famed Tchaikovsky 1812 overture recorded on the digital recorder named the Soundstream and then transferred to vinyl. The "B" side with Capriccio Italien was perhaps even more intoxicating and impressive as a recording. So the promise of digital's advantages was known to the public even back when very few people had CD players and put up with needles mistracking and jumping out of grooves containing "real" cannon shots.I recall reading about the developmental work prior to REDBOOK in which Sony solicited the public and sound professionals to help determine the sampling rate and number of bits to use for digital recording using double blind audio trials. Is it possible that those trials were not flawed and that 16 bits and 44.1 kHz was truly the point of diminishing returns? Are the issues that we have with jitter today due partly to the fact that the digital trials back then were done using digital tape playback that had none of the CD playback issues of jitter?
How many of you audio "journalists" participated or covered those trials ?
P.S. If you are under 55 years of age...you probably don't need to answer :)
PeAK
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Topic - Original Sony Redbook formal trials...any journalist participation? - PeAK 08:38:34 12/10/06 ( 117)
- Those early DMPs, now on SACD... - Ozzie 16:02:05 12/13/06 ( 81)
- ...vinylization of Telarc Digital - PeAK 17:04:40 12/13/06 ( 80)
- "I really don't recall anyone complaining about digital nasties with Telarc in those years." I did! But... - clarkjohnsen 12:26:40 12/15/06 ( 3)
- The Telarc 1812 - Robert Deutsch 20:18:20 12/15/06 ( 2)
- Re: The Telarc 1812 - regmac 07:13:33 12/16/06 ( 0)
- There was that too! Not to forget the *very* distant perspective on the orchestra. But... - clarkjohnsen 06:49:18 12/16/06 ( 0)
- Digital artifacts? - E-Stat 06:29:45 12/14/06 ( 73)
- Re: Digital artifacts? - Ozzie 15:22:39 12/14/06 ( 1)
- You have a valid point - E-Stat 15:58:09 12/14/06 ( 0)
- Re: Digital artifacts? - Pat D 12:40:49 12/14/06 ( 70)
- Were his statements based upon controlled DBTs? nt - bjh 17:37:34 12/14/06 ( 57)
- Silly question: I quoted Stan Ricker and he said nothing about DBTs. - Pat D 06:51:57 12/22/06 ( 2)
- Pat-D-cake you're back!, almost 2 weeks later ... man those - bjh 11:52:17 12/22/06 ( 1)
- Strangely enough, I do not seek out your every post. (nt) - Pat D 03:47:17 12/24/06 ( 0)
- That's funny because - E-Stat 18:50:59 12/14/06 ( 53)
- Sure DBTs would have been better, but Ricker's and your sighted comparisons of the Soundstream recorder differed. - Pat D 20:32:26 12/14/06 ( 51)
- So you accept stan Ricker's observations at face value - Analog Scott 21:23:43 12/18/06 ( 28)
- Did I say that? - Pat D 23:02:55 12/19/06 ( 27)
- Re: Did I say that you said that or did I ask you a question? - Analog Scott 23:15:43 12/19/06 ( 26)
- Analog Scott thinks the null hypothesis can be proved! - Pat D 01:59:03 12/20/06 ( 25)
- I see, you were just looking for any excuse not to answer a simple question - Analog Scott 08:06:51 12/20/06 ( 24)
- Well, you can't understand the issues until you grasp that the null hypothesis cannot be proven statistically. (nt) - Pat D 15:26:07 12/20/06 ( 23)
- Nope, you were clearly looking for any excuse not to answer the questions becuase - Analog Scott 20:31:45 12/20/06 ( 22)
- Analog scott said the null hypothesis can be proven to a 95% level of certainty. Now he refuses to explain how. - Pat D 06:45:51 12/21/06 ( 21)
- Sadly Pat D is now making things up me to deflect attention from the fact that he won't answer the questions - Analog Scott 22:51:51 12/21/06 ( 20)
- Didn't your Mommy teach you to tell the truth? I answered your question here. - Pat D 06:22:39 12/22/06 ( 19)
- Ironic that you would question my honesty and then tell a flat out lie all in the subject line. - Analog Scott 15:12:07 12/22/06 ( 18)
- You just didn't like the answer I gave. Link provided, BTW. - Pat D 15:29:16 12/22/06 ( 17)
- baeutiful. A link to no naswer given to my question. Nice. thank you for proving me right - Analog Scott 15:56:14 12/22/06 ( 16)
- Nothing there, folks. Move along. (nt) - Pat D 16:11:25 12/22/06 ( 15)
- embarrassed? nt - Analog Scott 17:11:41 12/22/06 ( 14)
- Just trying to save you some embarrassment. Move along folks, nothing there. (nt) - Pat D 17:33:36 12/22/06 ( 13)
- Do you ever tell the truth? Seems to me you were doing everything you could to try to embarrass me - Analog Scott 17:36:07 12/22/06 ( 12)
- No, I figured you were embarrassed enough. Have you figured out that one cannot prove two things to be the same yet? - Pat D 05:43:32 12/23/06 ( 11)
- Have you figured out that no one is buying your story? - Analog Scott 09:05:59 12/23/06 ( 10)
- I doubt you would admit to buying anything of mine. - Pat D 10:23:34 12/23/06 ( 9)
- You seem confused. do you know the difference between me and anybody?. - Analog Scott 11:05:50 12/23/06 ( 8)
- And ad hominem seems to be the entire substance of your arguments. - Pat D 14:03:19 12/23/06 ( 7)
- I'd say ad hominem seems to be the entire substance of your arguments. - Analog Scott 17:03:50 12/23/06 ( 6)
- Could you tell me about proving the null hypothesis. (nt) - Pat D 18:07:19 12/23/06 ( 5)
- Thank you for proving "ad hominem seems to be the entire substance of your arguments. " - Analog Scott 18:16:14 12/23/06 ( 4)
- No, the null hypothesis is substantive issue, and you refuse to tell us why you disagree with the statisticians. - Pat D 18:43:54 12/23/06 ( 3)
- No, the only issue is the fact that an honest answer from you would expose that old objectivist double standard - Analog Scott 09:02:22 12/24/06 ( 2)
- A side issue irrelevant to audio. Now, understanding the null hypothesis is important for understanding audio DBTs. - Pat D 20:08:45 12/24/06 ( 1)
- thank you for proving me right, again. - Analog Scott 09:37:12 12/25/06 ( 0)
- :) - E-Stat 05:34:50 12/15/06 ( 18)
- All you illustrated is that listening live and listening to a stereo are not the same. - Pat D 11:44:05 12/15/06 ( 4)
- I am not alone - E-Stat 13:24:15 12/15/06 ( 3)
- I don't think anybody here will dispute that E man. - Ozzie 07:35:09 12/16/06 ( 1)
- My family and I love "Salamander Pie" :) [nt] - Ted Smith 17:55:34 12/16/06 ( 0)
- Agreed, E-Stat. - David W. Robinson 22:43:50 12/15/06 ( 0)
- Re: :) - theaudiohobby 09:05:04 12/15/06 ( 12)
- Do you likewise believe - E-Stat 13:27:45 12/15/06 ( 9)
- Re: Do you likewise believe - Pat D 22:44:22 12/19/06 ( 0)
- Re: Do you likewise believe - Ozzie 07:39:52 12/16/06 ( 1)
- What has gotten lost - E-Stat 08:06:51 12/16/06 ( 0)
- Re: Do you likewise believe - theaudiohobby 01:36:21 12/16/06 ( 5)
- Creative? - E-Stat 06:56:33 12/16/06 ( 4)
- Hearing loss? - Ozzie 07:49:42 12/16/06 ( 3)
- How about some DBTs? - Pat D 15:44:22 12/16/06 ( 2)
- Re: How about some DBTs? - Ozzie 07:16:59 12/18/06 ( 1)
- Re: How about some DBTs? - Ted Smith 07:47:57 12/18/06 ( 0)
Re: :) - Pat D 11:49:03 12/15/06 ( 1)
- Re: :) - Ozzie 13:24:18 12/17/06 ( 0)
Bla bla bla ... - bjh 21:52:15 12/14/06 ( 2)
- You're just jealous of my recognition - Pat D 03:57:44 12/15/06 ( 1)
- Yeah, I foresee a time when MJ's star has faded, when the new slogan sweeping the land is ... - bjh 07:07:42 12/15/06 ( 0)
You don't say! Whaaaat a coincidence! ;-) nt - bjh 18:59:50 12/14/06 ( 0)
That's what a lot of folks thought back then - E-Stat 13:41:42 12/14/06 ( 11)
- Did they do controlled DBTs? (nt) - Pat D 14:30:26 12/14/06 ( 10)
- You'll have to ask Stan - E-Stat 14:53:53 12/14/06 ( 9)
- Re: You'll have to ask Stan - Ozzie 15:32:27 12/14/06 ( 8)
- i always felt that digitally recorded LPs - hifitommy 17:30:43 12/14/06 ( 0)
- Answer - E-Stat 17:11:05 12/14/06 ( 6)
- Re: Answer - Ozzie 08:01:50 12/16/06 ( 4)
- Sounds like we agree - E-Stat 08:15:11 12/16/06 ( 3)
- Re: Sounds like we agree - Ozzie 13:16:46 12/17/06 ( 2)
- Having heard the Soundstream 16/50 master - E-Stat 18:57:09 12/17/06 ( 1)
- Not having heard the Soundstream 16/50 master - Ozzie 08:19:05 12/20/06 ( 0)
- "'digital nasties' were a function of the early CD players". I agree. - bjh 19:06:12 12/14/06 ( 0)
Re: ...vinylization of Telarc Digital - Bob Rex 05:38:33 12/14/06 ( 1)
- Same here! nt - clarkjohnsen 12:29:06 12/15/06 ( 0)
I was almost there - John Marks 16:06:49 12/11/06 ( 17)
- Re: "utter nonsense" related to the "EG" in MPEG/JPEG - PeAK 05:26:35 12/20/06 ( 0)
Re: I was almost there but closer - John Atkinson 07:57:25 12/12/06 ( 15)
- So based on the intended purpose... - Bob Rex 09:43:53 12/12/06 ( 14)
- Re: So based on the intended purpose... - John Atkinson 10:37:46 12/12/06 ( 13)
- That's interesting, it suggests that in the slogan - bjh 12:50:18 12/12/06 ( 12)
- well that's not quite fair - Bruce from DC 13:55:04 12/13/06 ( 11)
- Re: well that's not quite fair - soulfood 15:19:45 12/13/06 ( 8)
- Wait until you hear pre-recorded cassettes on a correctly aligned Nakamichi deck! - Teresa 00:53:11 12/21/06 ( 1)
- I'm not waiting. That ship has sailed. - soulfood 17:52:58 12/21/06 ( 0)
- no argument from me about cassettes - Bruce from DC 16:16:15 12/13/06 ( 5)
- I recommend a Nakamichi cassette deck, the best $39.50 I've ever spent. - Teresa 01:00:02 12/21/06 ( 0)
- Hey now - E-Stat 06:01:13 12/14/06 ( 1)
- I heard that Norelco mic... - Ozzie 09:37:48 12/20/06 ( 0)
- OK for my car..... - Bob Rex 05:25:22 12/14/06 ( 1)
- Besides, - regmac 07:38:39 12/14/06 ( 0)
- Re: well that's not quite fair - regmac 14:42:16 12/13/06 ( 1)
- The ad actually read " Seventh Row Center Forever" nt - Jeff Joseph 16:36:58 12/20/06 ( 0)
digital players have toc memory problem - jeromelang 20:56:56 12/10/06 ( 9)
- Re: digital players have toc memory problem - Ken B 10:48:16 12/12/06 ( 6)
- more on this toc memory problem - jeromelang 19:42:24 12/12/06 ( 1)
- Re: TOC...Rega Saturn/Apollo improvements? - PeAK 05:19:49 12/14/06 ( 0)
- Re: digital players have toc memory problem - jeromelang 18:17:19 12/12/06 ( 3)
- You wouldn't also happen to be a Monopoly aficionado by any chance? :) nt - bjh 20:02:28 12/12/06 ( 2)
- no, i'm a polygamist.....! - jeromelang 20:49:23 12/12/06 ( 1)
- OK, in that case ... - bjh 21:15:44 12/12/06 ( 0)
Re: ...hijacking threads/directing thoughts - PeAK 07:05:22 12/11/06 ( 1)
- Re: ...hijacking threads/directing thoughts - jeromelang 17:45:47 12/11/06 ( 0)
Unlike the development of analog formats - E-Stat 08:55:15 12/10/06 ( 6)
- Re: Unlike the development of analog formats - Rob Doorack 11:13:20 12/11/06 ( 3)
- I wouldn't be at all surprised - E-Stat 12:50:21 12/11/06 ( 2)
- Re: I wouldn't be at all surprised - Zag 23:48:54 12/13/06 ( 1)
- I remember my first Seagate drive - E-Stat 05:42:37 12/14/06 ( 0)
Re: In the early days of recording, capacity was an even bigger problem. - theaudiohobby 15:12:42 12/10/06 ( 1)
- Point well taken - E-Stat 19:17:19 12/10/06 ( 0)